In addition to the two player start box, is there anything else? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 08-31-13, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Wow thank you so much! i'm really digging Warmachine a LOT so I really appreciate the help. i'm working on building up both the Khador and Menoth armies so any help I can get is very welcome.

I might also add, Privateer Press is a very accessible and fair company. I just upgraded both armies for $60 haha.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-13, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjar667 View Post
Wow thank you so much! i'm really digging Warmachine a LOT so I really appreciate the help. i'm working on building up both the Khador and Menoth armies so any help I can get is very welcome.

I might also add, Privateer Press is a very accessible and fair company. I just upgraded both armies for $60 haha.
Nice

As for advice for the factions, I'll throw in a few tips.

Firstly Menoth, my own faction. We're a faction which supports jacks very well, but we need our infantry as well, especially as a screen to shield our slow jacks as they move into position. The Choir and a Vassal of Menoth (not to be confused with the Vassal Mechanic who is different!) should always be your first purchases, as they form our core jack support. Then a nice unit like Errants or Temple Flameguard, with their respective U/As. I can give you a lot more advice on them if needed

Now Khador, as per the fluff has the biggest toughest jacks... because it has the least means of producing the Cortexes needed for them, and so wants to protect the ones it does have more thoroughly. In the game, you'll find most casters only ever want one or two jacks - the faction as a whole just doesn't support them as well, and their strong independant infantry are usually what carries them through. There are exceptions of couse, and Butcher1 and Kharchev can run several jacks quite well, but just warning you incase you were thinking Khador was the jack heavy faction

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-13, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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I do like both factions a lot, and since the models are rather inexpensive, I've been building up both armies as per the 'net's advice. I like both aspects of the factions. Menoth has that deserty theistic feel to it, and Khador has that snowy, heavy lurching juggernaut feel.

I will say I do gravitate towards Menoth. On friday, I did order a Choir and a Vassel that seemed to be the unanimous must-haves for Menoth. And for Khador, I grabbed a squad of Widowmakers and the Butcher. That will make my armies:

Menoth:

Kreoss
-Crusader
-Vanquisher
-Repenter
5 Cineratora
Choir of Menoth
Vassel

Khador:

Sorsha/Butcher (still learning the ropes as to which warcaster fits better)
-Juggernaut
-Destroyer
5 Man o' War Shocktroopers
Widowmakers
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-13, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Cinerators* and also, thank you for the continued help!
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-13, 04:27 AM
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I would like to add that the Man of War Shocktroopers will get played less once you start getting into the game. It isn't that they are bad, they are lacking in quantity of attacks, and they are expensive point wise in a list. Also they are as slow as Khador warjacks. If you love them play them by all means, they just are not competitive unless you spam them. If you have say 3 full units of shocktroopers then you have 15 attacks to throw at your opponant. Here is the kicker, remember when I said expensive, they are 9 points for 5 models and with 3 full units you are rocking 27 points just in shocktroopers. That doesn't leave room for anything else.

Good news though, get the black ivan upgrade kit and make the destroyer into black ivan. Then with just a few conversions you can make the juggy into a beast 09 character jack for your warcaster Sorscha. Also I recommend getting the Khador colossal for 35 to 75 point games.

Welcome to Khador my favorite faction. if you have any questions feel free to PM and I will answer them as best as I can. If you like themed armies I got you covered. I love having themed armies, so if that turns out to be your thing, I am your man.

If you don't particularly like themed armies, I recommend getting some mercenary solos to flesh out your army of choice. Sorscha is a great caster so have fun. For the motherland!!!!

Death to the false Emperor!!!!

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-13, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
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Well let us see. So far I've built up these two armies out of the battle box, including the shocktroopers and cinerators. Any advice is welcome though I do prefer lower model counts and more tanky armies like Khador seems to favor.

Khador:
Butcher + 6
Destroyer - 9
Juggernaut - 7
Spriggan - 10
Shocktroopers - 9
Widowmakers - 4
Manhunter - 2

Protectorate of Menoth:
Kreoss + 5
Vanquisher - 8
Repenter - 4
Crusader - 6
Min Choir - 2
Cinerators - 8
Knights Exemplar - 5
Vassel of Menoth - 2
Knights Exemplar Seneschal - 3
Paladin of the Order Of the Wall - 2

Thanks for the input!!
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-10-13, 10:54 PM
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Get wardog to accompany the Butcher. Khador cannot reliably run more than one jack so in my opinion you should stick with the spriggan and drop the other jacks. Drop the shocktroopers and add in doom reavers with the grey lord escort, and if you go with Butcher's theme list, you can actually have more than just one unit of doom reavers. They are really that good.

Your list is okay for fun, but it is not efficient nor competitive. I guess if that isn't your bag, then your list is fine the way it is. See the reason Khador can't run that many jacks is because if you are fueling 3 or 4 jacks with focus you are not casting spells and the butcher needs to cast his spells. If you are not running two units of shocktroopers then you should not run any at all. I will give you a list using some of the models you have in your list and basically make it a more efficient army. Lets face it we all like to win, unless you are playing other new players with sub optimal lists, you are going to lose with those two lists you posted. I will post one list for pButcher and one list for eButcher seeing as I do not know from your post which one you are talking about. So, here is the list:

pButcher tier 4
pButcher +6 WJP
Wardog 1 point
Spriggan 10 points (4 points after WJP)
Doom reavers 6 points
Greylord escort 2 points
max MoW Shocktroopers 8 points, (minus 1 point due to tier list)
max MoW Shocktroopers 8 points, (minus 1 point due to tier list)
MoW Drakhun without dismount 4 points
Manhunter 2 points

eButcher tier 3
eButcher +6 WJP
War dog 1 point
Juggernaut 7
Doom reaver 5 points (You get a discount on point cost due to tier)
Greylord escort 2 points
Doom reaver 5 points
Greylord escort 2 points
Doom reaver 5 points
Greylord escort 2 points
Fenris 5 points
Yuri the axe 3 points
Man Hunter 2 points
Man Hunter 2 points
Man Hunter 2 points


I recommend you run tier lists with some casters while others, such as Sorscha, work better out of tier with mercenary solos to boost the list's efficiency. You will know which caster to run in tier and which ones work better out of tier once you are familiar with the forces Khador book and have some games behind you. Cheers and good hunting.

Death to the false Emperor!!!!

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-11-13, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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pButcher, sorry. I should have qualified that these are the models that I've assembled and painted for collecting purpose, and have not yet been arranged in much of a tactical way. I like to think of them as the soldiers retained by the Empire, and not yet deployed into combat.

That being said, optimization is exactly what I am looking for. Most of where I am coming from is based off info pieces together from other sources, but clearly this is the most potent source as you seem to know your stuff.

I like the first list you posted, now if only the wardog wasn't impossible to find.

Any advice on Menoth? I also have a Circle Orboros list idea cooking (if anyone would like to hear, might as well).

pBaldur + 6
-Megalith- 11
-Wold Guardian - 9
Druids of Orboros - 7
Druid Overseer - 2
Shifting Stones - 2
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-11-13, 01:17 AM
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The circle list looks good to me and should be fun.

Death to the false Emperor!!!!

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 10-11-13, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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So for now, using models I already have and as a next step toward what you have suggested, I am at:

The Butcher of Khardov
Spriggan
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Alten Ashley, Monster Hunter
Man-o-war Drakhun (with dismount)
Manhunter

And my general army will continue to grow/optimise. I just ordered the second Shocktrooper unit and Drakhun from Minimarket on sale! And Alten Ashley has been floating around for use so he needs the work.
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