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First thoughts of the system as a 40k player.

3K views 17 replies 3 participants last post by  scscofield 
#1 ·
Played a few games over the holiday weekend. Two 15pt games against a Khador player and a 20pt game against Legion. Didn't do any scenarios, just lined up across from each other and attempted to whack each other's Warcaster.

1. Holy fuck the game goes fast. I knew it would but being told and playing are two different things. Even with time spent referencing rules and discussing units it was still under a hour for each game. As a 40k player I am used to even small gamed taking a bit of time. As I get more games in it will play out even quicker I think.

2. Small mistakes can mean the end of a large chunk of your force. I am playing Menoth and did not place my Choir well first game. One 4 inch AoE later they were gone. The second game I sent my Crusader (heavy Jack) a little two far forward. It got waxed when the Legion war beast charged it. With so few models on the board and so much raw damage output possible your army can be hamstringed in a single turn.

3. Even if your vastly behind you can pull out a win. Warcasters can be burly in a pinch. It seems they become more dangerous as the game goes on. I pretty much lost everything but my caster and a crippled jack. Next turn I manage to get my caster in position and put a beat down on the other caster, win for me. The Legion game was the flip of this, I was whittling his army down and he suddenly dives thru everything via pathfinder and fury spells and nukes my caster with his.

Overall I have been impressed with the system. The game takes less time, space, and money than 40k. At the same time it is fun and the models for the most part look great. The system is basic enough that my 9 yr old daughter is pucking it up, bit deep enough tactically to make me think. As I get more games in I will start putting more posts down in these forums.
 
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#2 ·
Welcome to the brutal world of WM/H, and yes the game does go fast when you're just let loose beating the crap out of eachother.

The usual progression if 15pts all jacks/beasts > add solo > add unit > alternate caster > play scenario and just build pts as you go. I do recommend playing scenario as soon as you can though as thats where the game is at it's best, also don't be afraid of trying timed turns even if you use longer turns than the steamroller pack suggests. It can add a new element to the game even when you've played your army and the scenarios plenty.
 
#3 ·
I am willing to try scenarios but most of the people playing at the moment are new like me. It is a new game store and the owners are getting into the system. Figure I will show for a couple more weeks then push for that aspect of the game.
 
#4 ·
The scenarios in the book are pretty basic, but can be fun. Try Moshpit and No Man's Land, both of which work well in low point games just to keep the action fast, the others I find work best in 25+ (usually 35) point games, just because they require capturing multiple points, which can be very hard with low model counts.

If you want a few more missions, check out the Steamroller 2013 pack (or 2012/2011 packs) for lots of extra scenarios :)

As for keeping your infantry safe, remember that you can spread out up to your CMD away from your leader - your choir boys can be up to 17" apart if need be, so you have no excuse for having them all bunched up. Getting used to infantry being so independent is one big change from 40k I find.

What have you got for you Menoth so far, out of interest?
 
#5 ·
So far I have the set from the two player starter and choir. Figured I would get more games in before I went much further. The ability to start a whole other army for the price of a 40k flyer has me taking my time with the system purchases.
 
#7 ·
I can remember looking at either upgrading my Bretonnians just to be reasonably viable for 8th ed, or getting a 50pt Menoth list with options for the same price, so I know that feeling :)

I would suggest grabbing a Vassal of Menoth (not to be confused with a Vassal Mechanik or Vessel of Menoth), which is a cheap solo who we get a lot of use out of. That will bring your 2 player box and choir up to 25pts pretty nicely. The Vassal is the other half of our brilliant jack support, and he'll be your Vanquishers best friend, as he lets it shoot a second of those lovely templates a turn. He is an easy buy, and something you'll always get heaps of use from.

Then, when you're ready to upgrade, a nice big front line unit, for which I'd suggest either Temple Flameguard, Zealots or Exemplar Errants, depending on which flavor takes your fancy. Take your time though, as you say there's no hurry, and the small games are always a blast.
 
#6 ·
#2 Supply and Demand
#3 Close Quarters
Are both good central based scenarios from the 2013 steamroller pack, i've never liked the ones from the book and i've always used the steamroller ones instead as they are generally been more interesting.
 
#11 ·
ROF restrictions only apply during your activation, and "ancilliary attack" on the vassal allows you to make an out of activation attack. Up side is that you can get the second shot, down side is that you can't boost anything on that shot (as you can only boost in-activation shots). But the out-of-activation attack has some other advantages - squish something to free yourself from combat before activating normally, or run then use ancilliary attack to still get a shot. Wonderful.

Plus, the vassal also has "enliven". Target a jack, if that jack takes damage, it can make a free advance ignoring free strikes. So enemy charges in, takes his first swing and you just walk away. It can be countered by knockdown effects or running infantry to prevent movement, but damn it can still be very annoying for your opponent.
 
#13 ·
A few.

Firstly Rhupert, piper of ord (often referred to as the piper of Menoth because of his popularity with us :D) is great if you have a unit or two. Tough, pathfinder or +1 def and terror all on tap is a wonderful addition to many lists. I like using him with daughters of the flame, especially with Defenders Ward - def 18 is very hard for some lists to deal with, and they cause terror! Run them in, force a terror check, and watch most enemies flail around uselessly trying to hit them - just be careful of various auto-hit or boosted hit effects that can cut them down. He also pairs up nicely with a large unit of errants - give them tough, and have the Covenant of Menoth nearby (to prevent the knockdown part of tough) and they can be very difficult to remove.

Gorman, rouge archemist is also great. A strong sneeze will kill him, but he has stealth to protect him at range, and if he can get a blind or rust bomb on a hard target, he's earnt his points. It's hard to argue with a 2pt solo who can cripple a colossal for a turn.

Those two are the most popular with us, but there are quite a few other utility solos/units that work well for us. Eyiriss, Ayiana and Holt or Anistasia all have thier uses. If you like a strong melee caster like Thyra's or Reznik, you can try Madlyn Corbeau or Saxon Orrik (for granting extra movement/pathfinder to your caster respectively).

For units, we generally don't need mercs, and do better with in-faction choices, BUT there are a few specialised lists which can make good use of them, though they do need an attendant priest. Harbinger or the High Reclaimer and pirates can work, and Reznik has a reasonably good theme list which involves Steelheads (from a No Quartar article, you can find it on warroom, or I can give you the details if you want). I've also heard of Croe's cutthroat's being used competitively before.
 
#15 · (Edited)
It depends really. If you have a few different opponents, probably go for 35pts - once you have a few options and a few casters, your lists can play quite differently from one another. A pop-n-drop pKreoss list (Ranged assassination heavy) is very different from a Vindictus list (lots of very fast infantry) is different from an eFeora list (jack heavy, lots of fire), is different from a High Reclaimer list (heavy infantry and attrition). It's one of the good things about the game, a few pieces and a caster, and it can feel like a whole different army.

That said, if you only have a few players, and you want to be able to try some completely different challenges, or you just want to be able to practice a bit for yourself, then another army might be a good idea.

Trollbloods have a few similarities with Menoth, in that they require a fair bit of support to work, and tend to work a little more on attrition than speed and tricks, but they tend to have a bit more infantry support rather than battlegroup support.
 
#16 ·
I have decided to stick with the Menoth and just develop them more. At this point I have the Vassal of Menoth and Vilmon on order. I plan to get two of the Palidins also. Them with Vilmon looks hilariously tough to kill while still being dangerous to me.

Played against Skorne today and managed to win but it was a close thing. We played mosh pit and I was taking a beating in the jack department, was down to a half killed Repenter. His warcaster got a little too close to my Cinerators though and I managed to charge/kill it.

I think my biggest issue so far is remembering that each model activates and does all of it's stuff before the next model. I keep trying to move everything then do attacks and catch myself. I also forget buffs I cast on my models like the choir. Most of this is lack of playing any tabletop war games really. I have been out of the loop so long I am a bit spacy while playing.

Where would I go to find the other games you guys mentioned, the steamroller stuff. Is this stuff online or do I need to get a book?
 
#17 ·
No book needed, just google search steamroller 20xx to fine any of them, current rules are here: http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments down the bottom.

They put out a new Steamroller pack every year, with different scenarios, play tested by TOs and Pressgangers (they're the volunteer community organizers), and with different quirks that can be used.
 
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