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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-10, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Chaos Warrior unit sizes

i'm re-starting my WoCs again soon for the first time in this edition and i'm trying to figure out what size i ought to make the chaos warrior units.

i've had success with my beasts with much larger units than before, but i realise that the WoCs are a totally different type of army.

i've looked through the lists and there seem to be differing opinions so i can't tell whether to keep with the 'standard' 15 strong from last edition or whether to increase.

for a frame of reference, my games will generally be either 2,400 or 1,200 points, my list options are pretty open other than dragon ogres and chaos ogres.

please note i'm not asking for a list, but just saying that if the chaos warrior unit sizes depend on the rest of the list these days, i'm still not settled on what the list will be, and can plan around that.

cheers in advance for your help
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-10, 01:55 PM
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18 in a 6x3 gives you a nice 150mm Frontage, one rank of expendables, and a rank of supporting attacks, for around 300pts.

If you take Throgg, Trolls are decent choices - Ld 8, and he gives them a decent Magical Breath Attack which fucks with those Wraiths and Spirit Hosts which used to be the main problem I found in the past with a troll army. There's no need to take a troll army either, but Throgg is a decent fighter (Vomit/number of high strength attacks + Breath Attack + Stomp), and allows Reroll Breaks and Ld8 for Dogres, Shaggoths, etc within 12", giving you another wider front. M6 makes them nice flank breakers - I run him in a 5 Troll+Throgg unit, (3x2), but have gone up to 10 (5x2) in larger games.

Dragon Ogres, people are too quick to dismiss them. Now, because you can no longer decide to tank up if you take Halberds on your Warriors (MoK can't with Frenzy in any case, so might as well take them, especially with baiting now not as much of an issue (BSB+Ld8 is a fairly decent chance of succeeding)), Dragon Ogres with their AHW+GW combination do extremely well - it's either 4 S5 Attacks, or 3 S7 Attacks each, plus Stomp. Might be worth looking at converting some (I made mine from an Ironguts+Dark Elf Cold Ones).

Chaos Knights have lost their lustre - they can no longer break through enemy ranks (I know I used them to kill the front rank, and then they were fine - now, with Step Up and, Supporting attacks, Spears and Horde, I'm looking at recieving as many attacks as I put out - and despite my higher stats, even losing just one Knight severely weakens their chance of breaking through - 330pts for a Maxed unit of 5 used to win a battle , Frenzied Horses 10 S4 Attacks and 16 S5 Attacks used to kill the front rank easily - the 2-3 return attacks did Sweet FA - but 10-15 Return Attacks is a killer).

Also, I never leave home without 2x Tzeentch Shrines now.



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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-10, 04:32 PM
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i tend to like 24 which gives you the rank bonuses and means after kills your more likely to ignore steadfast
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-03-10, 10:57 PM
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l have benn running them as 21 men by 7x3 still have had the most luck with that

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-04-10, 10:51 PM
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Dunno about percentages and math and shit like that but I run my Warrior units in 18 man squads and they seem to do well enough for me.

one thing I want is the ability to split my fire everywhere, it makes no sense that a squad of 10 guard or marines or whatever all have to fire at 1 target with everything, is the guy with the lascannon not smart enough to realize maybe he would be better off firing at the massive tank looming overhead instead of the little man no bigger than a squat running at him, or is that far too complex for the 10yr olds?

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-05-10, 12:14 AM
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My personal preference is to never take less than 20 in a unit, it's too easy to lose a rank to shooting, and then you:

1. Can't remove steadfast
2. Lose out on supporting attacks because the third rank + a bit is dead
3. Take a lot of attacks back, killing a few more

I would expect a unit of 18 Warriors to kill 1 enemy unit per game (excluding things like skirmishers and war machines). My unit of 30 frequently kills 3-4 big enemy units, making it somewhere between half again and twice as effective as the smaller unit.

Also, the bigger the unit, the less you spend on Marks, Commands and Magic banners. It also keeps them in range of your general and BSB. That's my opinion, anyway.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-06-10, 06:00 PM
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i think you have to get the balance right between number of units and killing power of each unit which is something you will have to experiment with
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-06-10, 08:12 PM
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The number of ranks and the width of ranks for warriors quite varies from playstyle to playstyle.

Ofcourse there's no question as to what you want them to do, the answer is kill, maim, burn,....hmm perhaps going a bit to far into the future. Anyway, the question is, are the expendable to you or not? Do you mind losing them after a few rounds of combat or not?

It also depends on what weapons you give them. As you could see 3x6 or 3x7 is the most chosen option as this maximizes attacks, allows for a shooting/magic casulty or two and still hold ranks. I used to play 6x3 as well, three blocks of nurgle with shields. Now they are great tank units and can deal out quite a punch. But I found out that str 4 doesn't always do the trick, especially not against more elite troops. So the things you need to ask yourself are, is it worth it to maximize attacks with the equipment i have? Can I afford to lose them or not? (this might influence your decision of maximizing attacks to get more CR, or to get more ranks (so 5x4) to get your steadfast.)

5x4 is effective with shields, great tanking unit with good save, steadfast, still a steady 16 attacks, 21 with frenzy banner.

6x3 works good when having a sorcerer or anything inside it, more protection cause more warriors have a chance of obliterating the unit. Also best way to maximize attacks. Units with FC tend to go up to 350pts though.

7x3 is a personal choice, with 8th edition other armies also put larger units on the field, also ranked on 6 or 7. Just don't forget your base is 25x25 and the others mostly 20x20 (considering the more popular armies now). And it wouldn't be the first time, I've had a fussy opponent about every 0.001 inch (as a matter of speech, even though they are right, it's annoying like hell). Though this is an absolute maximize of attacks.

Everything higher is a waste up to horde rules, then it get interesting again.

To give an idea, I field 2 10man units of khorne warriors with halberds. I can afford to lose them (but I rather do some damage first). They are a small target so will never be much shot or magic'd at. Worth around 200 points and hit with 20 attacks I5 WS5 at str 5 at their best, good enough against most armies (except for those pesky high elves).

So that's what I have to say about it, it's not really a direct answer but one thing I learned about warhammer is that lots of things are personal choice, when you feel good with it, you go for it. So I just gave you some info, the playing and testing is up to you. Enjoy it, and ofc glory for the dark gods

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-07-10, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for your replies guys - i've been mulling them over and playing about with lists and i tried out a 1,200 point list last night which consisted of an 18 strong unit with halberds, shields, banner of rage and full command.

i ran them alongside a 40 strong tzeentchian marauder unit, a 5 strong khornate knight unit and a exalted champ.

i was really pleased with their performance but since i was up against the VCs, the shields (being only a precaution against ranged shooting) were a little redundant.

have made a couple of tweaks to the list, for instance for some reason i gave the exalted a beserker sword then put him in the unit with banner of rage - go figure! and i plan to try out th list a couple more times against a few different foes before trying some different unit sizes as suggested.

thanks again for your assistance.!
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-07-10, 12:56 PM
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Did you also give him mark of Khorne, just to make him REALLY angry?

90% of people think they are above average.

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