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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-24-10, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Default OOOH shiny scales!- Lizardmen Special Choices

Howdy all,

Thought it was about time i shoved another tactica up. The boring stuff is out of the way, and its on to the sweet juicy fun parts of the army book.

First up we have chameleon skinks. these guys were pretty much useless in 7th, as their only advantage over regular skinks was the scout ability. and u know what? T2 scouts= dead scouts

yeh, thats right. these guys that cost as much as a saurus? stil WS2 T2 no save. Dear. Lord.

but in 8th they have their uses thanks to the change in the scouts rule. now we can set our 5 camo guys up 12" away from the enemy, and pop all we got at an enemy war machine. BS4 means even at long range we can multi-shot and move and still claim poison shots against them. next turn, dont expect them to stil be ther, as the enemy WILL take vengeance. but so what? your 60pt unit wiped out a 100pt+ war machine and saved your Slann from one threat. if it helps, model them with kamikaze style headbands

i dont see why you shouldnt set 60 or 120pts aside for a unit or two. they are always handy to have. remember, defending your slann is priority no. 1 for your lizzies

next up is our other disruption unit, terradons. unlike the chameleons, these guys were a must-have in 7th, as they were cheap, effective and relatively potent flying units. in 8th their role has not changed much, and i have found them to be extremely useful for their points. the strider (forest) rule is far more potent in this edition with the increase in the amount of terrain on the board. plus their drop rocks ability is still a brilliant anti-skirmisher/warmachine mechanism that is very easy to get off. and with 2 wounds and a stomp attack (thank you monster base) they can handle themselves in close combat against other light cav and skirmishers. a unit of 5 is only 150pts and is very effective

cold one calvary are our next option. With a 2+ save, plenty of S4 attacks (5 on the charge of course) and fear, these guys are damn good looking calvary. the negatives are a relatively slow pace (for cav) and stupidity. with the boost to LD provided by a BSB, if you keep them fairly central or as part of your main battleline they should avoid stupidity easily enough

the only problem is the supposed "nerf" that players are screaming about to cavalry in this edition. for too long players have relied on those big units of chosen chaos knights and the like to break the enemy and win the game for them in one charge. well its time to use them tactically from now on. cold one riders are hard as nails and so can reliably take on small units, skirmishers and other cavalry units. otherwise, they can only really do damage if supported by a good unit of infantry (read:saurus. cos we dont have any others!) time you all learned to use your units with a bit of synergy rather than letting a unit go all Rambo on the enemy.

i personally dont use them because i find 35 pts a model too steep for what they do. i would recommend not taking them, but it's your army

kroxigor look good on paper. M6, S6, 3W 4+ save ain't too shabby. but what you have to realise is that T4 4+ save is NOTHING in this game. that is a save for a saurus warrior, but he costs a fifth of the cost of a krox. so you can get 5 saurus for the cost of 1 krox. i know which one i would rather have. there are better models to spend your points on

Ah the temple guard, the "Elite" infantry of the army our elite have an extra point of WS, I and light armour....i can hear the champagne corks popping already these guys should NEVER be taken without a Slann in your army. without a Slann they are just overcosted, better equipped saurus.

With a SLann they are a practically unbreakable anchor unit you can stick right at the centre of the board and it will not move. I dont like them though. miscasts hurt like a sledgehammer to the testicles. they are only just above-average fighters, and against other elite infantry they will melt away. and due to the stepping up rule, once you are down to one rank of temple guard those wounds start going on the slann. read the rules, those wounds go on the rear rank- if the slann is on the rear rank, bingo!

although how this works against a Slann with Higher State is beyond me. maybe they go on the temple guard, maybe they are ignored. ill throw a thread up in the rules discussion and see what happens with that

overall, i feel the temple guard arent worth it. i know many of you will disagree with me, but im calling it as i see it.

finally we have mr steg. this guy was the whole reason i started collecting the lizzies in the first place and he has always had a place in my army. with 8th, the steg cant just run around breaking units by himself, as steadfast will always hold them together no matter how many he squishes. what he does bring to the table is the only long range warmachine we have (which is mobile AND poisoned so aint bad) and is far sturdier and harder to take down than any chariot. it also dishes out a ton of hurt on the charge. this guy has gone from front-and-centre rank buster to a flank charger who will give most flanking units the willies.

the only stumbling block is the cost. 235pts isnt over the top for what he does, but for 40 points more you can grab an ancient steg. higher strength alone is enough of a selling point for me, the scaly skin and the funky weaponry are just bonuses. but a regular steg is stil a worthwhile investment

well there you go, the special choices available. There is no unit that i would say you should NEVER take as they all have their strengths and place in the army, although IMO kroxigor are probably the weakest unit of them all.

I would always recommend either terradons or chameleons at the very least, if just to take out warmachines that could threaten the slann.

thats all from me again, ill tackle the rare tomoro and then we will bring it all together and build up a few army lists

for the glory of Sotek

Sir Mike

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 08:35 PM
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My only question is why only 5 chameleon skinks? From my math, most you need at least 10 skinks to deal 3 poison wounds to a warmachine.

20 shots needing 6s to hit and thus wound results in 3.333 wounds. You need another 6 if they are wearing any sort of armour like dwarfs.

5 skinks only does 1.67 wounds to an unarmoured crew. I guess at that point though, they can only fire half as fast.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 09:05 PM
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No, War Machines are not affected by wounds at all in 8th edition. They fire at full ROF until destroyed. I'd rather have 6 skinks. 1 poison wound and .5 normal wound on average per round. That's two rounds of fire and a dead machine. And if they're charged they stand and fire at the chargers. Granted, they die a lot after that, but they've bolluxed up the whole line at that point.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 10:01 PM
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No, War Machines are not affected by wounds at all in 8th edition. They fire at full ROF until destroyed. I'd rather have 6 skinks. 1 poison wound and .5 normal wound on average per round. That's two rounds of fire and a dead machine. And if they're charged they stand and fire at the chargers. Granted, they die a lot after that, but they've bolluxed up the whole line at that point.
To me that seems like a bit of a waste. Sure you put a couple of wounds on the warmachine but its still going to fire. You're skinks are not going to be around after that first round, whether is being charged, magic'd, or shot (or all 3). To me, it seems I'd rather have a chance at downing a warmachine than doing a few wounds to it and a few wounds to a unit that charged me as they are worth no VP in those scenarios.

Just me though, I haven't actually ever used them so this is just theory.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-27-10, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Crimzzen View Post
My only question is why only 5 chameleon skinks? From my math, most you need at least 10 skinks to deal 3 poison wounds to a warmachine.

20 shots needing 6s to hit and thus wound results in 3.333 wounds. You need another 6 if they are wearing any sort of armour like dwarfs.

5 skinks only does 1.67 wounds to an unarmoured crew. I guess at that point though, they can only fire half as fast.
Personally i prefer 2 units of 5, if one doesnt do the job then the other can but the enemy has to deal with each individually

u never know, u mite get to run away with one to be a pain later in the game

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-02-10, 12:58 PM
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Excellent series of tactica Sir Mike, really helpful and informative.

Any chance of covering the Lords buddy? I know people often just stop at Slann but we have some interesting Lord options even if their points cost does not make them that viable.



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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-02-10, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Excellent series of tactica Sir Mike, really helpful and informative.

Any chance of covering the Lords buddy? I know people often just stop at Slann but we have some interesting Lord options even if their points cost does not make them that viable.
Honestly i dont see any reason in taking any other Lord but a slann. The special character lords are all a waste of points, and there is nothing an oldblood can do that really complements or enhances an army, that a scar vet cant do for cheaper ie. hit things til they fall down

Apologies all for the lack of rare and army building threads, life has bn a bitch recently. i will endeavour to get this series finished this week, if my ex-gf plays ball and i can find a job it will be done sooner

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-04-10, 08:01 AM
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Thanks for this thread man. I have always loved the Lizardmens background and models, and this thread really makes me want to collect them... +rep!

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-09-10, 06:41 PM
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I appreciate the multiple Lizardmen 8th edition tacticas Mike. Great work =) +rep


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-09-10, 07:47 PM
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Since I've come back to Warhammer since 8th was released, I am enjoying reading up on tactics and theorycrafting for my Lizardmen.

Unfortunatly, 8th seems to have nurfed them even more so. Thats my opinion. But removing rules, adding negative ones and such is upsetting. I still wish Saurus Warriors could get an additional bonus to help them negate the 1 Initative score, I mean Dwarfs are the closest to them, but they have better armour... Ah well. Anyways.

I agree, double up Cham Skinks, pretty nice still, -1 hit from other range units is nice. Pretty cheap for what they are. I still wish Krox got Devastating Charge to offset the stuff they have lost, would be an awesome skill, since they are 1. Shocktroopers 2. Huge and 3. Designed for it you'd expect them to have it. 7 Str on the charge would be awesome. I was throwing around an idea of doing 6x3 Krox, as far as I can tell, that'll be 54 Attacks (No attack reduce from supporting) and then +1(or is it 2?) from Thunderstomp from the first 6 on top of that. Be pricey to do, but would smash everything, 54+6 @ 7 Strength be nice . Also, I'd wish Sarus got some Light Armor on top of Scaly Skin, +4 Armor Save isn't great really, seeing as they hit last. Howdah Bow is a bit less awesome, due to Slow to Fire rule being added, so no Stand and Shoot reaction, but seeing as it can be fired while moving, still could skewer a few. The one thing I don't get about these weapons, is in the Army Book there is a "Damage" stat, what does that mean? I'm probably stupid.

However, Cav is pretty poor as always, extra save point, but too slow for what they are for and stupidity is not what you want for a unit you need to flank with. Terradon Riders might be the better ones since they've had their rules revamped. Forest Strider is also nice

Temple Guard I agree at stupid for their cost and what they are. They should have Heavy Armor or a +3 Scale. Sure they get the Unbreakable rule with a Slann, they look cool and have Halberds, but like already said, without a Slann, they are utterly pointless. With Higher State I believe the Slann becomes Etheral, so no, normal weapons won't hurt it, but Magic ones will, so. But as I said at the start, I think Lizardmen are terribly underpowered, if you read the "War is Coming" press release, they were never mentioned, yet every other race was. Furthermore they have only one "decent" core unit, the Saurus Warriors.. Skinks are not that great and Swarms are pointless (Well I've never seen them used). Their Elite are pants for the price. Their 'best' units are Stegs, Slann and maybe Salamander/Razordons. Krok-garr is also nice, but compared to other heroes some armies get, he isn't anything special. I just wish they'd add another Core unit of some sort, the Lore is there, they can bring back some other Saurus or something. Elite units could be the flying serpent things.. forgot the name. The Rare unit could be Thunderlizard or it could be a terrific General. They need buffing... I know others would disagree, but their Elite are not elite and only a few units are actually able to perform decently on the table. Either that or a major stat rethink.
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