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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Default Spears ?

Ive always been bemused by this question so i want to know what other people think. Most basic units in the game have the otion of bringing spears. Skeletons , clanrats , orcs , saurus etc.

Now these units autimaticly come with shield+ hand weapon (4+ save) , is the spear better?

In most cases this is 10 attacks with a 5+ save vs 5 attacks with a 4+ save.

So which is it , 10 attacks or a 4+ save? Obviously it is different per unit.

I imagine for units like skeletons its a must , as they can be reserrected so don't need the extra +1 to their save. If this is not the case what is the ratio od no spear/spear?
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 05:48 PM
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Really, this is very situational.

As you say, the ability for a unit to still have an attacking rank is critical in some situations, while the additional defense has often been proven to work wonders in preserving a unit.

Spears are great if you get to attack first (especially since I'm a High Elf player). You get to strike with a flurry of attacks, meaning more will hit the opponent, more will wound the opponent, and more attacks will be left unsaved. That means fewer enemies to strike back.

The Armor Save is great if your troops are otherwise rather weak and will be attacked first (either by ranged attacks, melee, magic, whatever). For units like Swordsmen, the extra save is almost invaluable. They posses a decent attacking ability, but their decent save is what makes them so invaluable to an Empire general.

I'm sure you can think of times when you can expect to attack first, or times when you can expect to be under a constant barrage of violence. Even in a single game this can come up. That's why you really need to consider the options and make calculated decisions to succeed. Or just go with what's cool. It's worked well for a lot of players, but it won't always yield anything truly competitive.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 06:42 PM
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Against weak enemies spears are good, I also use them when the attacking enemy negates my save due to its own strength. Generally when I charge I use HWS, as I only get the first rank anyways and I'm hoping to break the enemy on the charge...
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Spears work better on the defencse hands down , shield/HW work best on offense as their bonus is not hindered by movement unlike spears.

I suppose the idea is to have a mix and go 3/4 depending on the army your using. maybe even 50/50.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-26-09, 03:19 PM
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you can choose which weapons a unit uses when they attack, so if you have the pts give them all spears, and if they need it pull out the shields and hand weapons. the only way to work out when is practice realy.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-26-09, 06:59 PM
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I always look carefully against my opposing unit before i decide which combo to use,
If your charged by knights or monsters then the sheild/ hwp will make little difference so I'll opt to use their spears at least for the first round,
If I'm charged by skaven or some other weak troop then I'd probably try and keep the unit alive so opt for the hwp and sheild provided I have a unit that could support them quickly.
If its a really weak unit then I'd probably try to cause maximum kills but there are few units weaker than Empire spearmen (that aren't green)
Its all about working out which option will help you survive the combat wether its more attacks or more defense.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-26-09, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dafistofmork View Post
you can choose which weapons a unit uses when they attack, so if you have the pts give them all spears, and if they need it pull out the shields and hand weapons. the only way to work out when is practice realy.
Yes that is an option , but obviously you cannot swap weapon in the same combat . But i suppose the idea of you charging = shield/HW and if you get charged = spears. Bascily what Neil said

still my main army is vampires (and soon TK's) , ive founf with them spears work well , as even if they die when they charge you can simply reserrect them next turn. Although disadvantage is that you are sort of asking for a skelly to get killed but meh.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-27-09, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot The Grot View Post
Yes that is an option , but obviously you cannot swap weapon in the same combat . But i suppose the idea of you charging = shield/HW and if you get charged = spears. Bascily what Neil said

still my main army is vampires (and soon TK's) , ive founf with them spears work well , as even if they die when they charge you can simply reserrect them next turn. Although disadvantage is that you are sort of asking for a skelly to get killed but meh.
Skeletons die anyways, I did a calculation in excel somewhere, iirc if you are fighting T4 units, you're better off with HWS if you're fighting T3 units better off with the spears, assuming you fight an opponant with a 4+ save. Generally I just use spears when defending HWS when charging, to try and get that critical break on the charge...
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-27-09, 08:53 PM
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it really all boils down to what can have them. undead need to be cheap or you will have few units and so will be easy pickings. Same really for skaven. Saurus warriors should cause it give the unit an extra 10 attacks and they are very reliant

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-02-09, 04:05 PM
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Being a VC player Id say that spears aint never worth it on Skellies. They are simply too bad fighters, their sole and prime purpose in combat is to survive as good as possible. Gaining CR is done with static points and heroes that kills stuff

Fear only really counts when youre more US then your opponent. Making your models more expensive wont make that happen, rather the opposite...If you want infantry that actually can hurt things then get ghouls

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