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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Default Great weapons, worth it?

I've always seen great weapons as bitter sweet. +2S which is awesome but always strikes last, it seems a bit unbalanced to me. Ok they are good for cheap characters who you take just for the improved Ld likea empire captain at low points games but other than that I see little point in taking them. Am I on my own with this?


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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 03:58 PM
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As with most things in Warhammer its all about the charge, or being High Elf. I tend to find them useful and often took Executioners just to throw at pesky high armoured Dwarf units. When I had my Empire army I nearly always took Greatswords as well, so I must be some kinda fan of them.

Oh and I still think they are a good cheap way of making a Character hit harder if you go for defensive magic items, or none at all.



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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 04:19 PM
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Marauders of Khorne + Great Weapons = More Bang for your Buck.

Literally, they can rip through anything, and for 25 (!) at just over 170 points, with Full Command, you're looking at something that most elite infantry are scared off.

And Executioners are better than Swordmasters, Druchii, although they require a Magic Standard to become that. And nonononono on Tullaris. Although he is agorgeous idea, 1 wound just isn't going to do it for me. Not going tolose 100 odd points, because some snotty Knight Errant Champion charged the unit.



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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 08:25 PM
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Moved to tactics - squeek

As Druchii says the charge is all important if your unit is equipped with great weapons. On the charge they are fantastic, otherwise not so much. Having said that assuming it isn't a whitewash those models hitting back are still doing some serious damage. There are also a number of units, Black Orcs being a good example, where they will have more than one weapon.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 08:50 PM
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Partly it depends on your I value as well. For example Dwarves, M3 I2.....in no world are they attacking first. Why not attack at +2S when it costs you nothing.

The marauder example is a really risky use of them. If this unit charges you, they will eat your face in. However if the unit is charged, T3 and no armor save will get mowed down.

GWs work best on either elite infantry that have the stats to back up their usage, or in smallish units that are functioning like Empire detachments and can hold out for a flank charge by hiding behind the tougher guys.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 09:57 PM
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Chaos Warriors are a unit which is an awsome example of GW-goodie. Give em shields too and they can pick the best of two worlds.
If they get charged by something a bit dangerous then fall back on 2+ save
If you charge then prepare a huge can of whupp-ass with lots of S6 attacks

Other examples on good GWunits are big guys like Ironguts, Minotaurs and the like. They have fairly high T and some wounds each meaning that you will most likely not lose one before you can strike back if you get charged, and if you charge you once again have a huge ammount of lethal attacks.

Units with fairly many attacks will naturally benefit more from increased S on their attacks, as will units whith high M values since they will get to charge more often.
With the nerf of mounted GW rules they have become a bit less mandatory on characters. 6th ed was GW heaven, now it might once again be worth getting magical weapons for heroes

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-14-08, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MaidenManiac View Post
Chaos Warriors are a unit which is an awsome example of GW-goodie. Give em shields too and they can pick the best of two worlds.
If they get charged by something a bit dangerous then fall back on 2+ save
If you charge then prepare a huge can of whupp-ass with lots of S6 attacks
I'm gonna disagree with this one. Chaos warriors are the unit that halberds were made for. I5 is a horrible thing to throw down the drain. Chaos warriors are more likely to be thrown up against enemy elite infantry that can actually cause some damage to them, however at I5 they will at the least be going simultaneously.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-08, 12:26 AM
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I played dwarfs recently and had my arse handed to me because i didn't take any great weapons i too thought it was a waste, now i will take them all the time as Maiden maniac said hand weapon and shield on defense and strength 6 on the charge that makes all the difference, i also took my marauders with flails and quickly found strength 5 for one round isn't enough, so you strike last but strength 5 all the time what a difference they can be a serious threat to most units even heavy cavalry. I'm now a convert and love great weapons!
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-08, 02:32 AM
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fpr high elves they are amazing, especially for swordmasters as they always strink first. It all depends on the tone of your army, if you have a more static army then their's no real point as you won't charge as often. If your going to run relentlessly forwards then go for it!
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 12-15-08, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimson skull View Post
they can be a serious threat to most units even heavy cavalry.
Only if you charge Heavy Cavalry, and can break them/reduce their front ranks. Otherwise, they are a liability, for two reasons. Heavy Cavalry hit hard. Very hard.

There are 4 classes of heavy Cavalry nowadays.

You have your Fast, or Light Cavalry, which are susceptible to anything, and any shots against them aren't really wasted. Any Light Cavalry.

You have Medium Cavalry, who hit hard, and have have a medium armour save (3/4+). They need to have attention paid to them to damage, but you can afford to target elsewhere. Boar Riders, Shield and Light Armour Marauders etc.

Heavy Cavalry, these are the general troops, like Bretonnian Knights, Empire Knights, and pretty much any 1+ Save Knights. Hit very hard, and require anything up to a cannon to deal with them - can sometimes even take an entire unit of Ranged soldiers to even cause a wound.

Super Heavy Cavalry are the Creme de la Creme. These beasts have multiple attacks, high strength, above average toughness, and usually the ability to take a Magic Banner, or even the Champion to take Magic Items, which range from Weapons, to Enchanted Items, to enhance your units performance. These are mainly Chaos Knights, Blood Knights, Dragon Princes, and Cold One Riders (both Elven and Saurisian).

Let's look at the last two. You charge them. Their armour (from a Str 6 blow) is reduced to 4, and you've wounded on a 2. Some Special Effects (Mark of Tzeentch, etc), gives them another chance to save the blow.

All in all, charging such Super Heavy Knights (who don't need to bother with the Charge) even with Great Weapons is not a good idea.

Point I'm making - Have flankers with Great Weapons. Have your holding units with a 2+ Armour Save - Hand Weapon, shield, and a 4+ Armour.



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