How do spells affect the mounts of characters ? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 02:06 AM Thread Starter
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Default How do spells affect the mounts of characters ?

The big red book, on the subject of mounted characters, says that the «whole model obeys both the rule for [the troop type appropriate to mount] and for character models»

Does that mean that say, my hero's horse counts as a character that can be targeted by the savage beast of Horros and such spells that target all friendly characters ?

And how about my ridden dragon ?

Also, are horses affected by spells such as Wyssan's wildform that affect the entire unit as well as the riders ?

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 04:50 PM
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A character on a horse becomes Cavalry (Character) so counts as a single character model with a complex stat line; so I believe all stats are effected.

Characters on monsters are separate for melee but not for everything. I don't have my BRB to hand, and cannot remember which way they go for spell targeting.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-04-14, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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Here's what I understand :

If I understand correctly, characters on monsters (or chariots) are affected separately only for the purpose of effects that inflict wounds.

For the rest of game purpose, they are a single model (And, a character).
That would mean «removed as a casualty» effect removes both rider and mount (with no saves of any kind), and augment and hexes affect both.

Also, Okham's mindrazor allows mount to strike with the leadership values of their rider (or the general's inspiring presence as per FAQ). After all, the BRB specifically says that the leadership values of the mounts are never used and that they always (that's always) use the leadership value of their rider.

Also, because it's a game, it's perfectly acceptable (and even desirable) if, sometimes, rules interact in somewhat non-sensical and cheesy ways. Games such as these, after all, are good practice for who wants to be a lawyer and a game without cheese is no fun.

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-07-14, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Jack View Post
Here's what I understand :

If I understand correctly, characters on monsters (or chariots) are affected separately only for the purpose of effects that inflict wounds.

For the rest of game purpose, they are a single model (And, a character).
That would mean «removed as a casualty» effect removes both rider and mount (with no saves of any kind), and augment and hexes affect both.
No. These models can be 'attacked' separately (pg. 105). So while both of them are affected if, say, someone casts Dweller's on them , it is resolved for the rider and mount separately.

Quote:
Also, Okham's mindrazor allows mount to strike with the leadership values of their rider (or the general's inspiring presence as per FAQ). After all, the BRB specifically says that the leadership values of the mounts are never used and that they always (that's always) use the leadership value of their rider.
Correction, the mount's Ld is never used unless a special rule states otherwise. this is, in point of fact, not 'always'. Okkam's Mindrazor is an instance where the rules are stating otherwise. The model uses Ld instead of Strength when attacking, and since rider and mount use their own stat line when attacking, the mount would use it's printed Ld characteristic in this case. However, should that model be in the general's inspiring presence, both rider and mount would use the general's Ld, as both would be affected by his inspiring presence.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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I wonder, would'nt a rider's leadership count as a higher leadership in a unit, as if a high leadership character was present with rank and file models ?

(Do rank and file model benefit from a non-general character's leadership when affected by Mindrazor) ?

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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-21-14, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Jack View Post
I wonder, would'nt a rider's leadership count as a higher leadership in a unit, as if a high leadership character was present with rank and file models ?

(Do rank and file model benefit from a non-general character's leadership when affected by Mindrazor) ?
Hope this Helps:

Q: Do units benefit from their General's Inspiring Presence for the purpose of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or Okkam's Mindrazor (p107)
A: Yes.

Source: Page 10 Warhammer Rulebook Errata Official Update Version 1.8, Updated April 2013. (PDF)


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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-23-14, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Marginally - by the same logic that the general boosts the leadership of surrounding units with it's inspiring presence, we would conclude that riders and non-general characters boost their mounts and comrades leadership value for the purpose of these spells.

Then again, since when is «by the same logic» a valid argument in WFB ?

Thanks thought, I realize that this may be all we have available in the way of official GW statements on the matter.

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