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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-14-11, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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So is the Horned Rat a Chaos God himself, or is he just a daemon prince or something? Is there any official background material on him? Are any non-skaven known to worship him?



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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-14-11, 11:23 PM
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Maybe a few of the crazies will worship the Horned Rat, or pray to some unknown Rat Deity to protect them - perhaps ex-sewer patrolmen, as they seem the most susceptible.

However, for the majority of the Empire population, the Skaven threat, and the Under-Empire doesn't exist - they're blissfully ignorant concerning it. In the Breton and Kislev, they're more widespread, but both due to the nearness of the Chaos Wastes in the latter and the Forest of Arden in the former, they are likely to be assumed as different forms of Beastmen - which in a way they are, but aren't, in that they're mutated rats, rather than mutated humans. But for those reasons, its unlikely that more than a couple of isolated individuals or perhaps hamlet/cult, no sane person would worship the Horned Rat, doubly so if they actually knew of the creatures under his control, and especially as he doesn't especially have any real power giving properties.

However - the Vermin Lord is apparently a Daemon of the Horned Rat, "summoned from beyond the veil". It is mentioned as a Living Avatar of the Horned One, of whom even the council of thirteen fear.

He was actually summoned - himself - once during the Civil War. The summoning process is described to require blood sacrifice - although apparently quality is not an issue, and is more to do with the signifance of the numbers - similar to the ritualism of Chaos, although like Skaven, are typically less on the quality. So, 13 thirteens is the number of Grey Seers, and 13 thirteens is the number of sacrificed slaves.

By the looks of this, he could well be a particularly powerful Daemon, unaffiliated to one of the existing major powers; similar to how Be'lakor is. Maybe he came into power similar to how emotion brought the 4 Major Powers into being, or maybe the Skaven came into being by the daemons designs. I don't think much has been talked about the Horned Rat a whole lot much - as the Skaven power seems to come from Warpstone, rather than a divine presence.



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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-16-11, 11:50 AM
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I always thought he was just a very powerful daemon prince.
I dont think theres much information about the horned rat. Shame really.
Vaz has pretty much covered what has been mentioned.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-16-11, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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I've always sort of seen him as a melding of Tzeentch and Nurgle, and to a lesser extent Khorne. I wish there were more background information on him though



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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-16-11, 04:47 PM
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I think it's too easy to brand the Horned Rat as a Chaos God or greater Chaos entity. Does it reside in the Realm of Chaos? Yes, most likely but that does not mean that it is a true Chaos God. I've heard that the new Tomb King rulebook suggests the possibility that the realm of the Nehekharan Gods may be a part of the Realm of Chaos. Now does that suddenly mean that the Nehekharans are Chaos worshipers? No. It means that the Realm of Chaos are home to far more things than we originally believed and for that matter far beyond what we comprehend it to be. The Chaos Gods control vast domains within the RoC but do they truly control it all in one form or another? No because that is the very essence of Chaos. As no Chaos God can hold everlasting supremacy over his peers, so too can they not hold complete control over the entirety of the Realm of Chaos. There could easily be regions within the Realm of Chaos that none of the CG have power over and are home to these other Gods.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-16-11, 09:44 PM
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In the earlier books (Slaves to Darkness, Lost and the Damned era), The Horned Rat and Hashut were identified explicitly as "lesser" Chaos gods, alongside the five "greater" Chaos gods (Malal was one of the greater gods).


Additionally there are the historical (no longer canon) lesser Chaos gods Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar, who are the gods of putting spikes on armor. (They were named after Bryan Ansell, Michael Moorcock, and Frank Frazetta.)

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-17-11, 07:47 PM
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The warpstone seems to have all kinds of effects on mortals, as mentioned throughout a few books.

So one could argue that the 'Horned rat' is merely a shared nightmare/image that all sorts of creatures shared when in a phantasmagorical state, induced via warpstone.

Thus, the shared nightmare could be born into an actual being. Similar to how the Chaos gods became.

So the Horned rat could of been born out of the shared conscious thought, and the fact he now has believers/followers means his power waxes stronger.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-19-11, 10:49 AM
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The Horned Rat has been described as a few things over the years. I believe the first time he's mentioned is as one of the Lesser Chaos Gods back in the days when there was a whole pantheon of gods instead of the 'One-God-Per-Race plus the Big-4-Chaos-Gods' approximation that we have now.

Personally, however, I've always imagined The Horned Rat as being a combined chaos entity with aspects of each of the Big-4...Nurgles influence is pretty obvious, Tzeentch isn't hard to spot and the Skaven drive for genocidal world-domination is certainly inkeeping with Khorne's bloodlust. The hardest to reconcile is Slaanesh, but the Skaven prediliction for deception and guile is distinctly Slaaneshi. If any entity were to represent a "Chaos Undivided" in Warhammer, it would be The Horned Rat.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-29-11, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Puggles View Post
The Horned Rat has been described as a few things over the years. I believe the first time he's mentioned is as one of the Lesser Chaos Gods back in the days when there was a whole pantheon of gods instead of the 'One-God-Per-Race plus the Big-4-Chaos-Gods' approximation that we have now.

Personally, however, I've always imagined The Horned Rat as being a combined chaos entity with aspects of each of the Big-4...Nurgles influence is pretty obvious, Tzeentch isn't hard to spot and the Skaven drive for genocidal world-domination is certainly inkeeping with Khorne's bloodlust. The hardest to reconcile is Slaanesh, but the Skaven prediliction for deception and guile is distinctly Slaaneshi. If any entity were to represent a "Chaos Undivided" in Warhammer, it would be The Horned Rat.
I would think the slaanesh aspect is obvious, the skaven breeds like rats. Nuff said.
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