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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-20-10, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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They do have spears I forgot to mention that
I might just start demons they seem pretty broken
keeper of secrets
3 heralds of slaanesh
skulltaker
2 units of 30 demonettes
6 seekers
30 bloodletters
6 flamers
most of the stuff is maxed out and every unit has a hero in it it's 3000 pts
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 08:01 AM
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Maxing out on stuff rarely results in a broken list or even a decent one. You didn't really listen to what I and others have told you did you?


You're spending too much on expensive characters and have too small an army for 3k. Three blocks of infantry for 3k is just too small. Divert some of those points from characters (I don't think you need that many heralds) to troops.

Exactly how were you thinking of using this army anyway? If you don't have a strategy then you will get walked over.

If you really are scared about your opponent's oversized Mega-units of Empire/Chaos knights then you need to make them pay for taking such a stupidly expensive unit by hitting them with things like Pit of Shades, The Dwellers Below or perhaps the Purple Sun.
The Dwellers below (Lore of life) is ideal for this because it target EVERY model in the unit and causes instant DEATH (if you fail the test), that's right DEATH! No save, no regen, no nothing. You'll kill about 1/3rd-1/2 of these units every turn you get it off. Suddenly they're a lot more manageable. Spells like these are designed to make stupidly expensive and oversized units a mistake and keep the game balance. USE THEM!!!
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBudget View Post
Maxing out on stuff rarely results in a broken list or even a decent one. You didn't really listen to what I and others have told you did you?


You're spending too much on expensive characters and have too small an army for 3k. Three blocks of infantry for 3k is just too small. Divert some of those points from characters (I don't think you need that many heralds) to troops.

Exactly how were you thinking of using this army anyway? If you don't have a strategy then you will get walked over.

If you really are scared about your opponent's oversized Mega-units of Empire/Chaos knights then you need to make them pay for taking such a stupidly expensive unit by hitting them with things like Pit of Shades, The Dwellers Below or perhaps the Purple Sun.
The Dwellers below (Lore of life) is ideal for this because it target EVERY model in the unit and causes instant DEATH (if you fail the test), that's right DEATH! No save, no regen, no nothing. You'll kill about 1/3rd-1/2 of these units every turn you get it off. Suddenly they're a lot more manageable. Spells like these are designed to make stupidly expensive and oversized units a mistake and keep the game balance. USE THEM!!!
there is a reason he needs to ask for a broken list, its cuz he probably doesnt listen / wouldnt know where to begin. even if we gave him a completely broken list, I doubt hed impliment it correctly.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 09:12 AM
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More importantly, it's hard to make a truly broken list for Fantasy. The game is very player decision-centric-- list building is maybe 10% of the game. If your opponent is stupid, or you're just slightly better at the game overall, you'll come out on top regardless of what army you're playing. I've seen goblins beat daemons of Tzeentch (complete with Kairos Fateweaver and the Blue Scribes) purely because the goblin player was a better player.

Asking for a broken list won't help you win games. It might give you an edge if your opponents are equally incompetent, but when your reaction is "I need a broken army to play this game," that's probably not the case.

I would play 2000 points instead of 3000-- it's a more easily handled game size, and it's one that I think is more conductive to getting better at the game. 7th was balanced specifically at 2000 points, and 8th probably is too, although 2500 points seems reasonable in 8th as well.

What you're really after is playing at a points level where emphasis is on your Core units and how you're using them. Vary what you do from game to game, and figure out what works and what doesn't. Lizardmen are a strong army-- you'll figure out how to win with them sooner, rather than later, I think.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 10:15 AM
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You know Jack you should listen to everyone here, I'm about to ask a moderator to close those threads of you, because you´re just too stupid to listen to others, games are not won by lists they´re won by the skill of the gamer, WE are not so good at hte moment and HE are OP, but a skilled WE commander/gamer will still be able to beat an unskilled HE player.


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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 05:51 PM
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Maybe rather than shouting at the guy, someone would take some time to explain how to put together an effective army list? Like the choices involved, the types and numbers of units that are needed, basic "must-haves" etc. etc.

is there a thread like that? Im tied up a bit with coursework plus trying to get my Lizardmen tacticas done (plus a Beasts of Chaos one afterwards i hope...army lists coming soon) but if no1 else wants the challenge then i can have a stab at it next week. Or i am more than happy to give advice and tips to any1 who wants to do the thread themselves.

This might be more productive and help Jack a bit in building a list that can easily crush the supposed "broken" lists- which are only "broken" because the basics of Jack's army is wrong

A little bit annoyed to come back to HO and find I've lost close to 200 rep.....
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 05:54 PM
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But he isnt asking for that kind of help. Its not our job to hold his hand. If he asks the right questions then he gets good answers, not "make me an unfair list so I can win all my games"
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putch. View Post
But he isnt asking for that kind of help. Its not our job to hold his hand. If he asks the right questions then he gets good answers, not "make me an unfair list so I can win all my games"
I know that isnt really what he is asking but i still think it could be a useful thread to have for anyone and in particular newer fantasy players who are looking advice. And you never know, Jack might look at it and learn something about the basics of army building, and from this become a better player and a better contributor to this forum

A little bit annoyed to come back to HO and find I've lost close to 200 rep.....
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 06:00 PM
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Argh. *struggles to argue against logic* I see your point. Makes sense. Well instead of making it some great big essay type thing, why dont we make a thread called "Begginer help" or the like, and all heretics can get their 2 cents in to help fledgling players
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-21-10, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_m1ke View Post
I know that isnt really what he is asking but i still think it could be a useful thread to have for anyone and in particular newer fantasy players who are looking advice. And you never know, Jack might look at it and learn something about the basics of army building, and from this become a better player and a better contributor to this forum
While I have been rather insulting of him, I have tried to steer him the right direction regardless. I just hope he gets the hint.

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