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post #1941 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 02:14 AM
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Well, can we hope it a conversion from metric to standard that's making it look so bad?

Despite what could potentially lead me to abandon playing and sell all my GW if things are as they seem, I can see troops not diving in price for a few reasons. They are the game winning items, so GW seems to price them a little higher than they might for just their gear. I think taking pricing from the standpoint of gear/stats alone doesn't address the game currency exchange inside the mechanics of the win condition.

12 points does sound awfully high for a basic sister, especially when so many limitations are placed on them, like min unit size, etc. However, I think that opinion is based more from my inability to properly use the unit than much else. For me, it's easy to see how to use some units in the game, but troops, especially sisters, have always been too weak to use like the more specialized units, and too many points to risk. It creates a mental block for me that makes me lose games.

My new, masterfully crafted, epic scope plan is to field a ton of troops. Shocking, I know. I'm going to have some specialists, for sure, but I'm looking to see if I can win with 'all' troops, instead.

So, 12 points isn't too bad. It's also harder and harder to shave points the farther down you go. Each point becomes more and more valuable as the model cost approaches proverbial '0'. If the game designer wants a model to cost a point or two less at 50 points, it isn't likely to unbalance the game much, but if he shaves that point on a 10 point model, he's just given the player a 10% increase in resources. Additionally, when it comes to commonly used units, especially 'forced to take' units like Troops, a reduction in 1 point would give you basically two more models, a 10%+ increase in forces. That's probably how they weighted it, looking at larger scales. If they really got fancy, they could point cost it based on total army size or %'s. For example, we all know one Exorcist is ok, but 3 is better, so why not make each one slightly more expensive to put in? I'm not suggesting we go and make it all not fun and what not, but small point size games do suffer from a higher per capita % impact.

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post #1942 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 03:44 AM
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Because increasing the cost of the exorcist implies it needed a higher cost to compensate for its power (didn't). Sure changing a tank from 135 to 140 might not change much, but it implies a lot of the image of the authors intents. While changing a model from 11 to 12 points does impact the game when you need a minimum of 20. One might say that "veterans made the untis cost 125 to begin with" and this is true...but not hugely important because the "points per model" in 5th edition standard punishes (or emphasizes) making units larger in price. This means for every sister above 10, you are punished 1 point per model more for little reason other than "cruddace wrote it". If anything you should encourage (given the lack of use of 11+ squads already) the use of larger squads...not discourage it.
It, as a sign of development, is a pretty bad idea.

Sadly we wont hear much more from the frenchies until tomorrow...given that it is around 3am there

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post #1943 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 04:03 AM
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To be honest I'm pretty sure the guy was trolling, there no way Saint Celestine is going to be 120 points and the other characters are going to be below 100 points.
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post #1944 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallWeasels View Post
Because increasing the cost of the exorcist implies it needed a higher cost to compensate for its power (didn't). Sure changing a tank from 135 to 140 might not change much, but it implies a lot of the image of the authors intents. While changing a model from 11 to 12 points does impact the game when you need a minimum of 20. One might say that "veterans made the untis cost 125 to begin with" and this is true...but not hugely important because the "points per model" in 5th edition standard punishes (or emphasizes) making units larger in price. This means for every sister above 10, you are punished 1 point per model more for little reason other than "cruddace wrote it". If anything you should encourage (given the lack of use of 11+ squads already) the use of larger squads...not discourage it.
It, as a sign of development, is a pretty bad idea.

Sadly we wont hear much more from the frenchies until tomorrow...given that it is around 3am there
Perhaps they'll get the rest of the point costs to us so the army as a whole can be judged - if the Rhino goes down to 40, for example (35 base +5 for inv save) mech lists actually save points. If Seraphim and repentia become a lot cheaper, the extra cost of a large unit of regular sisters becomes easier to bear.

If the exorcist went up in price, it's probably a) because of the save and b) to make other HS choices better by comparison. Seriously, how often did you see an army without at least 2 of the HS slots being exorcists?
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post #1945 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 05:21 AM
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My guess is that Repentia will be able to embark on vehicles, but not have dedicated transports. Still not a reason to take them, though.

And with scouting Dominions in a transport, why take Seraphim?

I don't see the concept for the army changing much. You are still going to take the same number of units, give or take a squad or two. The glaring omission being the lack of 3++. They didn't really do anything to compensate for that. And we really need the extra bodies now that we're not as hardy.

At least he didn't beat you with a Beaver. -Azkaellon
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post #1946 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 06:55 AM
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I had something written but in the end ... troll troll booo no rules.
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post #1947 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahavira View Post
Perhaps they'll get the rest of the point costs to us so the army as a whole can be judged - if the Rhino goes down to 40, for example (35 base +5 for inv save) mech lists actually save points. If Seraphim and repentia become a lot cheaper, the extra cost of a large unit of regular sisters becomes easier to bear.

If the exorcist went up in price, it's probably a) because of the save and b) to make other HS choices better by comparison. Seriously, how often did you see an army without at least 2 of the HS slots being exorcists?
and that isn't the fault of the exorcist and more the fault of those units in question. Namely penitents costing 120 each (well the first costs 120 due to the 40 point priest) and being as survivable as a grot in an open field...and retributors provide absolutely nothing to the army that you can't already do...while the exorcist is a decently costing tank with 13 front and the only weapon above 36 inch range (and you wont take any 36ers anyway).

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post #1948 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 08:43 AM
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some point cost up on BOK rumours group, but I can't access from work, could someone repost.
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post #1949 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 08:46 AM
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to repost from BoKs hub thingy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathtyphon
Some little point teasers from the Sisters Second White Dwarf.
Regular Sisters 12 pts each
Cannoness 75 pts base
Coffessor 55pts base
St. Celestine 175 pts
Repentia 90 pts 4 + 1 Mistress
Celestian & Sheraphim 15 pts each
Retributer 85pts for max heavy bolters
that is all I got for now. enjoy
Thanks for pointing that out Synack...I swore I checked that like 2-3 hours ago

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Last edited by WallWeasels; 08-24-11 at 08:56 AM.
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post #1950 of 2448 (permalink) Old 08-24-11, 10:10 AM
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With the new points costs and the 'loss' of Inquisition units and Zealots both, my army will most likely see their points value halved, lol.
Guess it'll be roughly 1.200 now instead of 2.100 ...

Ah well, maybe this will finally be the reason for me to focus more on my Dark Eldar or to totally switch to WHFB for good. Or I'm simply going to start an army of Matt Knights and melt down my sisters in one unholy offering to the chaos gods. That way I'd still be able to use the Inquisition Henchmen, plus there's some old RT Grey Knights somewhere in my cellar ...

40k Armies: Dark Eldar / Adepta Sororitas
WHFB Armies: Vampire Counts / Empire / various Elves
Horus Heresy: Alpha Legion / Warp Cult
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