6th Ed rumors from BOK's rideroftheerk (SALT!!!) - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Default 6th Ed rumors from BOK's rideroftheerk (SALT!!!)

Wall of text:

Quote:
I was told in privacy but can’t vouch for the accuracy. Corrected some spelling errors from icq conversation:
>>I am really pissed! The recent shift in GW’s marketing strategy is only the beginning. The goal is to completely control every bit of information that is going out and make every advance sneak peek look like an accidental leak. Think of Apple and you know what they are trying to achieve. They simultaneously try to keep the internet crowd happy with some leaked bits here and there and the store crowded focused on the next release. Prepare for more of these infamous “you see one eighth of the miniature and should stand in awe” pictures.

The restructured White Dwarf will be the only place for “official” news. The days when Games Days were a good source for exciting news are gone. No more seminars. Independent shop owners will get the info at the same time as the public. From autumn on product codes will be chiffres and retailers have to order bulk packages for new releases without knowing what is in it if they want to get the releases on the first day. If they want to buy the boxes individually they have to wait two weeks until GW releases the chiffres. Mail Orders won’t arrive on the day of release, they will be SENT on the day of release. So no more accidental early arrivals. If you want to buy a product on the day of release you have to go to a GW store or one of the shops that have bought the release package. There is no chance to get the products via an online store on time. The retail embargo for the southern hemisphere were initially planned for every single country, so no more exports from UK to continental Europa, but GW’s law division stopped this as it would have violated EU laws. So now they will introduce two boxes for every release with exactly the same content but different boxes. One is for the retail in a single country and comes at the standard wholesale price. The other box has all the necessary taxation and regulatory clearances for export. These boxes are virtually the same but GW is charging an extra fee for them. Online shops can choose to stop exports or accept a serious blow to their profit margins.

We, the gamers, are sitting on the receiving end of this dishonest policy once more. We are treated like children and that is exactly the goal of these changes. So here are some of their plans, as long as the info is available, to spoil some of their surprises:

* first 6th edition codexes, but release before or with rulebook, small release with single or two waves: Black Templars (1 waves: 2x plactic, 2x Finecast), Tau (1 wave: 3x plastic boxes, 4x Finecast), Necrons (2 waves)

* first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines

* two starter sets, each with rules, dices, movement markers, mission booklet, one with Dark Angels and fitting scenery, the other with Black Legion and Chaos scenery. You can combine both to play the campaign or use one set alone to play a selection of dumbed down scenarios against every other force, first starter set that comes with a model for a well established special character

* 6th edition is finished rulewise for some time now, the overall goal is to fix some of the long time problems of the game system. Expect a lot more fundamental improvements than last edition. The rules were even more ambitious at some stage of development, but didn’t get approved as they were too far away from the established rules. The main designer left company and his successors brought the rules back in line with the existing codexes. The rules are nonetheless a bigger step forward than from 4th to 5th. Changes are so big that the next edition relies partial on erratas to fix old codexes. Development relied heavily on feedback of veteran playtesters. You can see some results of this new approach by the way the FAQs were handled in the last months. All codexes since Codex Tyranids were written with the new rules in mind, especially the new mission and reserve structure.

* The main design goals are: one book to rule them all, heroic characters, visceral combat, streamlined mechanism, cleaned up presentation and strategy before chance

* strong narrative focus on Chaos, perspective shifting from the Empire to the struggle between free races and the Warp

* the biggest rule changes:
- similar ballistic to hit chart as wound chart: compare BS to target’s speed and unit type. BS 3 hits moving infantry on 4+, but lightning fast jetbikes on 6+ and stationary tank on 2+… HUGE
- victory points are back, but with another twist: you get two victory points if an unit holds an objective for an entire game turn, if a scoring unit holds one, you get three and one if you destroy a squad leader or vehicle
- before the game there is a bidding contest for the opportunity of the first turn, if you bid more strategic points you can go first, but the enemy can spent these points on stratagems as in Cities of Death: 22 generic stratagems – for example for one point you can decide on night fighting or place an automatic gun, for four you can shift your reserves, most expensive stratagems are at 12 points and are really drastic, every unspent point can be used once a game for a reroll
- new turn sequence: prepare-movement-assault-shooting-consolidate
new phase “consolidate” phase for random movements, jetpack movements, pursuits, morale checks/effects and resolving shooting reactions
assault before shooting – big units are real roadblocks!<<

*
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rideroftheerk 1 day, 2 hours ago

Some more examples for the development doctrines
One rulebook for all:
- flyer rules are incorporated in the main rules
- narrative rule section that expands core rules: formations, super heavies, gaining experience
- modular rules, core rules can easily be expanded by narratives rules or another expansion set

Heroic characters:
- independent characters more powerful, armour save and invulnerable save at the same time
- squad leaders more important, no more 50% rallying threshold, unit can rally as long as squad leader lives
- independent characters can snipe

More visceral combat:
- standard cover only 5+ now, Feel No Pain (1) only on 5+
- slow slogging units very vulnerable
- some weapon types are specialized in taking out specific unit types and are incredible good at doing this (sniper vs. infantry without armour), but on the other hand ordnance vs flyer isn’t going to do much

streamlined:
- no more random movement at all
- 5 general types of psychic powers
- wound allocation like 4th edition on unit basis, but attacker can chose every 5th wound to go to a single model (sniper weapon every second wound)
- artillery is normal immobile vehicle squadron, crew has no other game purpose than to be a counter for rate of fire and attacks

clean up of combusted rules:
- there are tiers for most of the special rules. Instant Death (2) circumvents Eternal Warrior (1) for example. Feel No Pain (1) is 5+, Feel No Pain (2) is 4+ and Feel No Pain (3) is 3+. If no value is given, the special rule is tier 1.
- no more difference between leadership test and morale test
- terrain rules on a single page, true line of sight, non-vehicles models are ignored altogether, rules for special terrain like bunkers, ruins or deathworld mangroves in narrative rule section

less randomness, more strategic options:
- more elaborate reserve rules, can nominate turn of arrvial and has only small change to arrive earlier or later, or can intervene behind enemy lines, arrives randomly but can hinder enemy reserves, must be distributed evenly between turn two and three, later arrivals only randomly
-no more random game length
-no roll for first turn
-deep striking units more than 18” from enemy away don’t scatter, but landing in 6” is much more dangerous
- movement impairing effects from pinning weapons even if morale check is passed (if roll is above halved Ld), Fearless not immune to this, but only effected if rolled over full Ld
- more reactions to shooting than going to the ground depending on unit type and special rules. bikes can evade (3+ cover as same as before, but cannot assault or shoot next turn), jump troops can fly high, units with Stealth can attempt to vanish, …
-rider of the erk, BOK rumors group

Ghost 21 has commented on this on warseer,
Quote:
starter set isn't black legion...... rest is kinda accurate
as did tastytaste
Quote:
Hey I cannot vouch for these rumors, but there is some general ideas in here that are on the right track. 6th is still being play tested and is not done for one thing. So take it with a grain of salt, but at the sametime I am sure some of things the rumorer has said will go down.

The box thing seems to make sense with the way its working now I'm told, but hadn't heard it explained so well, which makes me hesitant to discount these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZARDRA View Post
ok
so i have known 6th ed is defo on it's way for quite some time and from what i heard it will change the way we play 40k forever, the studio has been working on some thing massive for quite some time and from what i heard 6th ed is meant to be all out war, ie more of a 3d game play ie again to be much more what a real battle is like thats why so many aircraft and anti air tanks ect are hitting the shelves. i even heard that a warlord titan is well on the way and that the possibility of a warhound or something close to it could be hitting gw stores some time in the future. apocalypse is meant to get even bigger as a result, as for gw treating us like kids i agree things have changed so much in the upper tears of the company that it's almost like the lodges in the heresy books, if your not one of the boys your out! or treated like a heretic.

Interesting stuff in the warseer thread:

Ghost21 says the two army boxes will be "something from the warp" and "not Marines".
Quote:
im not saying 2nd ed didnt have problems, its just i havent enjoyed 40k since

prehaps im harking for a time where squats were there

but really if you didnt like overwatch n those sort of rules you wont like the changes

ps those virus grenades were so funny
He also mentioned two new amies for the edition, BramGaunt's info says "traitor legions" (chaos legions?) and "Holy Inquisition" (WTH aren't they in the GK codex?)



Last edited by Purge the Heretic; 06-22-11 at 04:57 AM.
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post #2 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 03:43 PM
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Wow. Major overhaul if even half the stuff is true! Way bigger than the transition from 4th to 5th.

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post #3 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 03:50 PM
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Since its from BOK, I'd instantly say at least 80% of it is total bollocks given the past record their of having stuff 80% wrong over the last several releases.
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post #4 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 03:53 PM
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There are some rumors here that I would actually be quite happy to see in the game.

1) Less Random + More Strategy: This is what I crave in a game, and what made me decide to not pick up Fantasy. Taking out a little of the random element makes the game into a more competitive manner of thinking so that you're not hoping for more game turns or units in reserve. I would be very excited to see these changes.

2) Cover going to a 5+: Cover is pretty ridiculous in this edition with 4+ cover saves everywhere pretty much negating AP4 weapons. A 5+ sounds like a idea to me.

3) Stratagems: Honestly this just sounds cool and introduces a greater risk/reward element than simply rolling to go first.

4) Chaos Legions!!!: I swore I would not be buying any more models after Grey Knights, but damnit the Thousand Sons are my absolute favorite faction in 40k and I'll be damned to not get a force if they receive plastics and a codex update!
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post #5 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 03:58 PM
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I really hope the Chaos Legions bits are right, please let at least that bit be true!

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post #6 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 04:13 PM
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The new BS stuff sounds pretty complicated but much more realistic. interesting to see how that one pans out
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post #7 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 04:44 PM
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I'll look at the 6th edition bit soon, but I just want to point something out:
Quote:
The retail embargo for the southern hemisphere were initially planned for every single country, so no more exports from UK to continental Europa, but GW’s law division stopped this as it would have violated EU laws. So now they will introduce two boxes for every release with exactly the same content but different boxes. One is for the retail in a single country and comes at the standard wholesale price. The other box has all the necessary taxation and regulatory clearances for export. These boxes are virtually the same but GW is charging an extra fee for them. Online shops can choose to stop exports or accept a serious blow to their profit margins.
The difference between exports and domestic sales is actually that you pay less tax on them. The government likes it when foreigners pay their citizens' wages, so they waive the VAT/GST/sales tax if the product is being exported. In other words either GW or RideroftheErk are lying through their teeth.
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post #8 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 04:47 PM
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Some of this stuff sounds pretty good, but other bits just strike me as getting needlessly complex - tiered USRs for example, it'd probably end up being a massive pain in the hole to follow who has what tier of rule in decently sized games. As would the new BS chart. More realistic but getting pretty complex.

Being able to take both an armour and an invulnerable save would be...interesting. It'd make certain stuff nigh on unkillable - terminator armour and storm shield, sanguinor, draigo etc.

The cover stuff sounds good though, it'd be a nice change from the massive amounts that there is now. Units that need it (ie pathfinders) would still benefit, but it'd be more reasonable all round.

The one bit I genuinely don't believe, and would be very suprised if it turned out to be true, is the bit about two starter sets, one with DA and one with generic chaos. We know how much GW loves money, but if you can't immediatly play a game out of the starter set, whats the point? Sure the IoB lists were illegal, but you still had two armies you could play. Although half of me can see them pulling this move to stop everyone picking up certain armies cheap off ebay by purchasing someones unwanted half of the starter box.

But, as GrizBe said - this is BOK. So I guess we'll have to wait and see how much is true and how much is a wild stab in the dark.
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post #9 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 04:49 PM
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Yeah, most of this is bullshit. Well, so I hear. However, from what I heard, this shit is going to be a HUGE change.

The Website kept telling me that my profile was only 80% complete without creating a signature. Ain't no website going to tell me I was a lazy shit, no sir.

Last edited by gen.ahab; 06-19-11 at 05:11 PM.
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post #10 of 230 (permalink) Old 06-19-11, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliban View Post
The new BS stuff sounds pretty complicated but much more realistic. interesting to see how that one pans out
This is where I take it with a grain of salt. Why on earth would they aim to make hitting more complicated? I'm really sceptical about that rumour. The global trend is to make the game more streamlined and geared towards bigger and bigger battles. Making the to hit system more complicated shouldn't really be happening. It's not like rolling to hit is insanely broken right now(or ever since 3rd). Cover... yes, but not to hit.
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