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post #31 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 03:36 PM
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Well remember that MANTIC was up to make cheaper miniatures to use in ANY game you play; they started without a game system with an alternative of elves for the people that player high Elves or even Dark elves with some convertion.

With sci-fi there would be the same, maybe not a copy-cat maybe with crazy-simple rules, but with miniatures that you could field in a 40K game to complete your armies or have modeling choices.

As far as i concerned (i have mantic skeleton and zombies) they have pretty different scale, cause GW is more cartonish.

With mantic i expect XENO enemies, more than space marines; they could make orcs, shooting blue prune face aliens, space elves; but no space marines as we know... but hope a space guard (humans with rifles) that could fill your imperial guard needs. Easily they could make demons, maybe not tyranids but something alike between Alien xenomorph (you know from the sigoney weaver movie) and tyranids, maybe some starship troopers.

At first they look to come with the forbidden SQUAT as a space dwarf, great! many people would be happy to collect them again, but this won´t really make them come to GW WH40k rules or a new codex.

I won´t like if they come with a particular new alien type like space chimps.... they are cool but common!

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post #32 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidel View Post

Sorry???

The emperor
Space Marines
Chaos gods
Tau
Necrons
Nids
Eldar (Everything except the name)
Primarches
Chaos legions

Do you want me to go on - that list could get bloody long very fast with very original GW ideas and backstory.
So, taking aside space marines, that I pointed out were original, you have evil gods, which are not unique, aliens and robots.

None of which are unique.

You seem to confuse fluff with game.

If you are going to argue that making a 10 man squad is copying, then dont shift the argument to fluff when it suits.

In terms of games, robots (battletech precedes 40k), aliens , elves are not unique.

Note: I never said the fluff was not unique, but you are claiming the game (that you havent seen) is a copy of 40K.

In game, space marines aside, the weapons, aliens, robots , laser guns, is not unique to 40k, all existed before it, so claiming another game that has robots laser guns and aliens is somehow a rip off seems , again , ludicrous.

And once again, why disparage something that will benefit the hobby?
More choice is good, its good for consumers, and its good for the companies involved.

The worst thing that happened to GW was becoming 80% of the market with no one to challenge and push them.
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post #33 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:02 PM
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Seriously - I need this again...




Nope - that wasnt enough

Are you intentionally misunderstanding me, or am I typing in a foreign language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
So, taking aside space marines, that I pointed out were original, you have evil gods, which are not unique, aliens and robots.
When you break it down NOTHING is original - EVERYTHING has been done before. ITs not what you have, its how you put it all together that makes it original.

If you read books on script writing and novel writing you will find there are something like 7 stories that can be told in an infinate number of ways. And those 7 stories fit any book or film ever made.

So, space marines are not 'original' either - there are plenty of things that pre-date 40K that have element of space marines in them, that when combined produce the space marine that we have now.

so please, dont say that, is just a useless arguement.



Quote:
None of which are unique.

You seem to confuse fluff with game.

If you are going to argue that making a 10 man squad is copying, then dont shift the argument to fluff when it suits.
I will spell this out in PLAIN ENGLISH (which I thought I had already done)


1) IT is NOT individual things that make a game 'unique'. WOW has elves, LOTRS have elves - they are BOTH very different elves.

2) I did not say that GW have some 'god given right' to be the sole users of 10 man squads - what I did say is that it typifies GW games. Therefore, other games that use 10 man squads AND (and that AND is all important) use lots of other similar things from the 40K universe are copying GW. Just using 'space elves' is not copying GW - using space elves, orcs and dwarves is.


Quote:
Note: I never said the fluff was not unique, but you are claiming the game (that you havent seen) is a copy of 40K.
No, I didnt. I have never ONCE mentioned the rules for the game. I think you are adding that in for me (love it when people put words in my mouth for me, saves me the effort of talking, or typing in this case).

What we know about the game is that they are going to produce armies for humans (Well thats obvious), space elves (ok), space orcs (erm...) and space dwarves (ah...).

Thats where the 'copying' tag comes in.


And, for the record - the rules of the game and the fluff are infinately connected - when you talk about one, you talk about the other (Accept in RAW/RAI arguements obviously).

To prevent any 'misunderstandings' if I post IN ORANGE then I am joking.
Thank you
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post #34 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:06 PM
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As we say with mantic fantasy rules it would be

..."is like 40k but with simplier rules"....

warpath

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post #35 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:13 PM
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I just wish they had copy heavy gear instead, but the size of wh40k. That way I could have tau battlesuit replacement. Heavy gear battlesuits are so small
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post #36 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidel View Post
Seriously - I need this again...




Nope - that wasnt enough

Are you intentionally misunderstanding me, or am I typing in a foreign language?



When you break it down NOTHING is original - EVERYTHING has been done before. ITs not what you have, its how you put it all together that makes it original.

If you read books on script writing and novel writing you will find there are something like 7 stories that can be told in an infinate number of ways. And those 7 stories fit any book or film ever made.

So, space marines are not 'original' either - there are plenty of things that pre-date 40K that have element of space marines in them, that when combined produce the space marine that we have now.

so please, dont say that, is just a useless arguement.





I will spell this out in PLAIN ENGLISH (which I thought I had already done)


1) IT is NOT individual things that make a game 'unique'. WOW has elves, LOTRS have elves - they are BOTH very different elves.

2) I did not say that GW have some 'god given right' to be the sole users of 10 man squads - what I did say is that it typifies GW games. Therefore, other games that use 10 man squads AND (and that AND is all important) use lots of other similar things from the 40K universe are copying GW. Just using 'space elves' is not copying GW - using space elves, orcs and dwarves is.




No, I didnt. I have never ONCE mentioned the rules for the game. I think you are adding that in for me (love it when people put words in my mouth for me, saves me the effort of talking, or typing in this case).

What we know about the game is that they are going to produce armies for humans (Well thats obvious), space elves (ok), space orcs (erm...) and space dwarves (ah...).

Thats where the 'copying' tag comes in.


And, for the record - the rules of the game and the fluff are infinately connected - when you talk about one, you talk about the other (Accept in RAW/RAI arguements obviously).
I see, when someone points out errors, try to belittle them.

I've noticed you do it before.

I'll ask again, in plain english.

You said the game was a rip off of 40k

You havent seen it, you know nothing about it, other than it has space dwarves and space elves, only one of which 40k has, and off you go like its some bad thing.

Again, why do you think more than one sci fi squad based wargame is a bad thing?

As a consumer, you should relish it.
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post #37 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:23 PM
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didn't 40k had space dwarves?

I think for the consumer variety is better, things like what privateer press is doing. Not this IMO
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post #38 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashikenshin View Post
didn't 40k had space dwarves?

I think for the consumer variety is better, things like what privateer press is doing. Not this IMO
It did have space dwarves.

It doesnt now.

that is why suggesting space dwaves is somehow a blatant copy is ironic.

All we know about this game is it has space elves, space dwarves, and vehicles.

Nothing else.

To conclude that is somehow a rip off of 40K is, to be polite, jumping the gun somewhat.
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post #39 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:28 PM
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Actually, I take offence at that. I dont 'belittle' people at all - I am extremely SARCASTIC to people who accuse me of saying things that I simply havent said.

I tend to find that nicer than simply accusing them of lying - but if you prefer that, I can do that instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post
You said the game was a rip off of 40k
Yes, and here is your plain and simple answer. (which I have said many times in this thread already so I am simply repeating myself now.)

If you are using SPACE ELVES, SPACE ORCS and SPACE DWARVES then from a very superficial perspective it is impossible to look at that and say they ARENT ripping GW off.

If the game comes out and the space elves are short lived, 2' tall people with wings and the space orcs are intelligent thoughtful and peaceful race and the space dwarves live on top of mountains and fly kites - THEN I shall retract everything I have said and praise them for the their originality.

Pigs will turn blue, fly and mate with hippos before any of that happens.

Quote:

Again, why do you think more than one sci fi squad based wargame is a bad thing?

As a consumer, you should relish it.
Why?

When babylon 5 came out I called it for what it was - a rip off of deep space 9. Why should I do anything else?

To prevent any 'misunderstandings' if I post IN ORANGE then I am joking.
Thank you
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post #40 of 94 (permalink) Old 06-03-11, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogginthenog View Post

You said the game was a rip off of 40k

You havent seen it, you know nothing about it, other than it has space dwarves and space elves, only one of which 40k has, and off you go like its some bad thing.

Again, why do you think more than one sci fi squad based wargame is a bad thing?

As a consumer, you should relish it.
We dont know its going to be a rip off 40k,but the rumours have mentioned the fisrt four races and 3 of those races are fantasy races, which is exactly how 40k started in 87,by taking fantasy races and then making them scifi fantasy, add to this that when mantic entered the games market they took warhammer fantasy and copied it, now i know your argument that those races were copied by GW etc etc, but when you produce very obvious high elf clone minis including naming them in a way that is an obvious nod to the opposite units in warhammer fantasy, basing them the same, giving them the same weapon loads outs and command squads and even similar colour schemes and then they hire a GW staff writer to pen the rules, this is the reason why Mantic is jumping on the band wagon.



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