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post #1011 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-17-10, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfCheese View Post
IF the Wyches get the charge.

And plus, working out mathhammer in a vacuum is always a bad idea.
There are so many other variables in the game that you have to take into account.

What if there is a bigger threat on the board?
What if their transport gets shot?
What if the Orks have a transport?
What if the Orks have FNP?
Take into account the Power Klaw too?
He said that they were Charging.

And your views on mathhammer are irrelevant, we were talking averages, which is a fairly good way to gague the expected performance of a unit.
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post #1012 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-17-10, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Redoing the math. Wyches only have WS4, all their variants only have WS4.

10 regular Wyches attack 30 regular Ork boyz. No special weapons or Hekatrix or Nobs.

The 10 Wyches start by using their Splinter Pistols (AP5, 4+Poison) on the orks.

10 Wyches Shooting
Shots: 10
Hit Chance: 66.67%
Hits: 6.667
Wound Chance: 50%
Wounds: 3.333
Unsaved Wounds: 3.333
Models Killed: 3.333
Options:
Ignore Armour, Poison

3 Orks die and then get assaulted by the Wyches.

10 Wyches Attacking
Attacks: 30
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 15
Wound Chance: 50%
Wounds: 7.5
Saved Wounds: 1.25
Unsaved Wounds: 6.25
Models Killed: 6.25

6 more orks die and they are now down to 21 Boyz who attack back

21 Ork Attackers
Attacks: 63
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 31.5
Wound Chance: 50%
Wounds: 15.75
Saved Wounds: 7.875
Feel No Pain Saves: 3.938
Unsaved Wounds: 3.938
Models Killed: 3.938

4 of your Wyches die but you win combat by 2 and he fails 2 Fearless saves and is now down to 19 Boyz.

Opponent Assault Phase

6 Wych Attackers
Attacks: 12
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 6
Wound Chance: 33.33%
Wounds: 2
Saved Wounds: 0.333
Unsaved Wounds: 1.667
Models Killed: 1.667

Another Ork dies and 18 Orks attack back.

18 Ork Attackers
Attacks: 36
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 18
Wound Chance: 50%
Wounds: 9
Saved Wounds: 4.5
Feel No Pain Saves: 2.25
Unsaved Wounds: 2.25
Models Killed: 2.25

4 Wyches left, 50% chance to survive the Fearless wound.

In the end the Wyches will die but 10 Wyches attacking a 30 Ork boyz mob would not even survive the first assault phase without FNP.

So my point is, FNP is really good. Wyches get a 4++ and 4+FNP from all non rending/PW etc attacks.
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post #1013 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 12:36 AM
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So anyone who's read it do you think it's balanced? Internally and externally? Or do we have more Spacewolves


credit goes to wolf.
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post #1014 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 12:59 AM
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I think it's quite balanced - things such as changing the drugs around (more streamlined and archon cant choose diffrent ones every round of CC) making certain wargear more costly, increasing warrior costs and reducing special weapons for small squads balances them well. Reavers becoming cheaper but making there armour save and strength weaker etc...

In the end most lists still have the ability to stay fairly similar to what they are now, though with all the new things I wouldn't want to.

An good exmple of balancing is this:

Old codex - 10 Incubi - 250pts, 10 man Raider Squad (with sybarite poison blades, splinter cannon and blaster) 161pts. Total 441pts

New codex - 10 Incubi -220pts, 10 man raider squad (with the same as the above) 190pts. Total 410pts

As you can see from the example above the balancing act has worked well, in that yes my Incubi are cheaper but my scoring units have gotten more expensive and are still as fragile as before.
Now before anyone say they now have the Power from Oain rule - yes I know they do but those 10 men have to kill a squad first and for them to gain it, so it has to be a fairly small squad or a massivley injured squad to do so in most cases which would leave them out in the field unprotected to be smashed by large amounts of fire.
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post #1015 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 01:25 AM
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I notice there is no Archites, but you can get the Sarge of the Wyches (I.E. Succubus) to act as the HQ? What happen here, hows that fluff change. Is Archites like Lilith non existant anymore? Are there still Wyche Cults in this Dex anymore or just Kabalds?

Also does anyone knows if Haemunculus can ride RJBs? I like the of my Reavers having a free Pain Token from that. Turbo Boost and FNP will last longer against small arms fire.
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post #1016 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeking up on people View Post
So anyone who's read it do you think it's balanced? Internally and externally? Or do we have more Spacewolves
It's balanced, especially externally. Internally there are a few issues in that some units are just plain better than others for the cost, but every Codex is like that, so all in all I'd say it's a winner.
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post #1017 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock in Training View Post
I notice there is no Archites, but you can get the Sarge of the Wyches (I.E. Succubus) to act as the HQ? What happen here, hows that fluff change. Is Archites like Lilith non existant anymore? Are there still Wyche Cults in this Dex anymore or just Kabalds?

Also does anyone knows if Haemunculus can ride RJBs? I like the of my Reavers having a free Pain Token from that. Turbo Boost and FNP will last longer against small arms fire.
Yeah they have changed the names of some units around, no biggy really, though being a DE player for so long it was a bit weird reading a first but essentially an Archite is now known as a Succubus much like a Dracon is a veteran sergeant for the elite warriors and not a HQ.

Wych Cults still in the different sects of the cults - Hellions, Reavers, Wyches etc.. have now been broken up a bit more in that they share some common background but have thier own apects so to speak making the feel more like the Eldar society.

And no Ic's can no longer ride jetbikes or skyboards but they get some very cool rules and abilities now!
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post #1018 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Liger View Post
Yeah they have changed the names of some units around, no biggy really, though being a DE player for so long it was a bit weird reading a first but essentially an Archite is now known as a Succubus much like a Dracon is a veteran sergeant for the elite warriors and not a HQ.

Wych Cults still in the different sects of the cults - Hellions, Reavers, Wyches etc.. have now been broken up a bit more in that they share some common background but have thier own apects so to speak making the feel more like the Eldar society.

And no Ic's can no longer ride jetbikes or skyboards but they get some very cool rules and abilities now!
What? No bike-mounted Archon of supreme asskicking? What am I then supposed to do with my lovingly converted easy rider of pain?

And I am told that your army can now include 2 Archons. Wth? Pretty odd situation to have coming up on several occassions if you ask me. Fluffwise that is.


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So you're a wanker?
Who cares? Anyone that says they don't wank is a lying twat. Wank hard, wank often.

Last edited by AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH; 10-18-10 at 07:49 AM.
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post #1019 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAAAAAAAARRRGGHH View Post
What? No bike-mounted Archon of supreme asskicking? What am I then supposed to do with my lovingly converted easy rider of pain?

And I am told that your army can now include 2 Archons. Wth? Pretty odd situation to have coming up on several occassions if you ask me. Fluffwise that is.
Competing Archons, perhaps? All you need to do is paint half of your army with a different colour scheme and its 100% fine I think.

Or maybe one of them is actually Vect, dicking around like always but he just can't hide his awesome enough so he could appear anything less than an Archon.

The fool, the coward, and the ignorant proclaim that the warp is a realm of unknowable peril and indescribable terror, that it is the hell of countless ancient myths and legends. This is a lie, told by those whose authority is based on lies, to keep the masses terrified of the unknown. The warp is limitless power and its secrets are infinite; it is knowledge and strength, life and death, and the untapped potential to make and remake worlds. It takes only the discipline and the will to shape it; those who lack that clarity of purpose are liable to be shaped by it instead.

- Ahzek Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
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post #1020 of 1264 (permalink) Old 10-18-10, 09:00 AM
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Or you could, I know i'm just throwing insane ideas out, play a fluffy army for once and not paint your army like your schizofrenic.

I sure as hell am going to do that when the time comes for me to phase my old codex out of regular play.


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So you're a wanker?
Who cares? Anyone that says they don't wank is a lying twat. Wank hard, wank often.
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