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post #1 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Default Gal's Thoughts on C:BA (Another looong post)

Well, my Space Wolves Review was well-received, and having just got my mitts on an actual real, legitimate, not a bunch of fucking lies copy of the BA codex, I figured I'd repeat my earlier performance and give you my take on what's included and what it all means.

While the wolves were everything Better and Cheaper than 'nillas, the BA are everything the 'Nillas are, but with sprinkles and whipped cream on top. Very few things are cheaper, many things are better, almost everything is more expensive.

As before we'll start with special rules then work our way down the FOC

NOTE: When I say "the same" or "Unchanged" I mean as compared to vanilla marines, not necessarily the same as the old codex. I'm using 'nilla smurfs as the baseline here.

ATSKNF and Combat Squads, nothing more need be said on those.
In place of Combat/Chapter Tactics we get Descent of Angels and The Red Thirst. These are cool, but lack the universality of the other rules (sadly, no 'everyone gets FC' rule)

Descent of Angels is pretty hardcore, IF you're into DSing Jump Troops.
Everyone with a JP gains the ability. You *may* reroll failed reserves rolls for units arriving via JP Deep Strike (so if you don't want your boys arriving too soon you can accept a failed roll), and when they do arrive, they scatter 1d6" less than normal. Meaning most of the time you're arriving early and striking within spitting distance of where you want. Nasty, but it's only for JPs

The Red Thirst is not a maddening lust for delicious cherry Kool-Aid (OH YEAH!), no instead it's a watered down, sugar added version of the original furious charge and rage rules we used to have. After deployment but prior to scout moves, you roll 1d6 for every unit with the rule in your army (which is basically everyone with a weapon skill, except servitors). On a roll of 1 (Or 3- if you've got Asty in your list) you are treated as having Fearless and Furious Charge instead of ATSKNF...I can't wait to see the fights cropping up bout Dreadnoughts, who have the Red Thirst but not ATSKNF.

It's not universal FC, but it's also not a 1 in 6 chance of ruining your heavy weapon shots every turn, so I'll take it.

Sadly, it seems HQ characters and unique characters are exempt and do not get Red Thirst. Ah well.

Aaaand...that's it.
No special FOC alterations, no extra HQ slots, that's it. But the juicy bits are still to come.

HQ
Unique Characters...

Dante (but not Randal) is solid, if expensive. A hundred points over a 'nilla basic Chapter Master, Dante has an additional Wound, point of Initiative, and Attack, as well as Artificer Armor, a MC Power Axe, a mini-Melta, a Jump Pack, a kickin Death Mask, and a couple cool special rules. If you priced out his wargear you're basically only paying 30 points over a regular master and getting the extra stats, special rules and unique wargear.

The Death Mask is fearsome. In addition to normal Death Mask rules (which force anyone assaulted to take a LD check, failure means they fight at WS1 for the first phase), you also get to single out an enemy IC before deployment and hit them with -1 WS, -1A, -1I, AND -1 Wound(!) for the duration of the game (minimum 1). Yeah, Dante just *being there* effectively wounds one of your ICs and makes him fight like a pussy.

His special rules are ok. He gets Tactical Precision which lets Dante and whatever JP unit he's with to not scatter when they DS, and Surgical Strike which gives him and his unit Hit and Run. Not shabby

Also, Sanguinary Guard are Troops for him.
Two gripes though. One: they made the Inferno Pistol even *less* unique (they take something away from him every time, I swear). It's not just a standard infernus pistol which every sarge in the army can buy. 6" melta pistol. No master-crafted, no 12" range...but at least it isn't called the 'erdition pistol' anymore. Two: He doesn't have Eternal Warrior. The man's 1200 years old, the oldest living, no-dready marine ever (according to the original fluff at least), and leader of a first founding chapter...but apparently he's nothing special. Not like Pappa Smurf, or the head Sally. The fuck?

Compared to Pappa Smurf, he's 25 cheaper than PA Cal, with a better save annd +1 Initiative and better wargear. No contest.

Gabriel Seth...is a fucking machine. 35 points over a 'nilla Master, Gabby gets an extra wound and extra attack (but he's not as fast as Dante). He also comes with a big fuckin sword that grants him S8 and Rending. And (here comes the fuel for debate) even though it's described as being two-handed, nothing SAYS it denies him a bonus attack for his BP. There is no two-handed rule anymore, and most two-handed weapons (like relic blades) explicitly deny bonus attacks. No such for his Blood Reaver (or those bigass power swords the sang guard for that matter).

Whoops, this is what happens when I stay up past my bedtime. As people have pointed out, while there is no two-handed weapon rule, the rules for bonus attack do mention single-handed CCWs. Bah, oh well.

That said, chances are you won't be using his Attacks characteristics, thanks to his two special rules. Whirlwind of Gore allows him to forgo the tedium of rolling to hit and just swing his sword around like a chainsaw wielding maniac and auto-hit every enemy in B2B with him. Yep...auto-hit *everyone* retarded enough to close in on him. If that weren't enough, anyone who survives long enough to actually hit *him* has to deal with his Ferocious Instincts which state that anyone who rolls a 1 to hit him suffers an automatic S4 hit from Gabby taking a cheap shot on you for fucking up. The description includes headbutts. It;s not specified, but I believe the spirit of the rule requires you to shout 'Oi, you got nutted, mate! Roit inna gob!" whenever you pull this off. Oh, he's also fearless.

Sadly, he has no FOC mods or other special rules. He's just Leatherface in power armor.

Compared to Pedro, he's 15 cheaper with +1 Wound and +1A, but no special rules to speak of. No bombardment or FOC mods, no inspiring presence. Leatherface is kinda meh. A nasty melee monster that you can score for cheap compared to the other assault monsters of the chapter.

Astorath is 120 points over a 'Nilla Chaplain (that's right, Bram Stoker's Dracula with a fucking spinal column battle axe is a chappy), but has +1 WS, BS, W, I, A, and a 2+ save. He also comes with a S6 Power Axe (2 handed, basically a relic blade), and a Jump Pack. Factoring in wargear costs (- the cost of a PW, but paying for arty armor, JP and relic blade) you're paying 75 points for his jacked up stats and special rules....which may be worth it, since along with giving all your units a 50/50 chance of gaining FC and Fearless and the normal chappy baggage, he also removes the 0-1 restriction on Deathco, letting you take up to SIX death companies, if you so desire. Nasty Asty.

Compared to Cassy there's no contest. He's way the fuck killier...but then, you can get almost TWO Cassius (Cassiai?) for the cost of this beast.

The Sanguinor has a silly name but a beautiful mini. He's that Saint Celestine in male drag model you've seen. I'm really not sure how I feel about him. At 25 over the cost of a LAND RAIDER, you get a model with +2 WS, +1S, +1I, and +2A over a Chapter Master, Arty Armor, a 2-handed MC Power Weapon (but no pistol), JP, Eternal Warrior (Fucker!), Fearless, FC, and a couple special rules. Avenging Angel lets you pick an enemy HQ at deployment, Sangy rerolsl failed hit and wound against that unit for the game. The Sanguinor's Blessing lets you pick one of your sarges and give him +1WS, +1I, +1A and +1 Wound for the game. Undying Will gives him a 3+ Invul, and Aura of Fervour gives friendly units within 6" +1A (except him)

I mean, he's nice...but meh. Way too expensive, not killy enough, and I don't like his dodgy fluff. Also, not an IC, so he runs around solo hunting enemy HQs.

Compared to Pappa SMurf, he's ten points more than Termie Cal, but not as useful to the army. In a fight he could take the old man, probably, but he's just not as useful and way too expensive.

Mephiston, Lord of Skullfucking Death is still a hardcore motherfucker, but not nearly what he once was. Still ungodly expensive (150 over a libby, the cost of a Land Raider), but pretty nasty. Compared to a 'Nilla Libby he has +2 WS, +1 BS, +2S, +2T, +3 Wounfs, +3I, +2A and a 2+ save. He also comes with Arty Armor and a Plas Pistol. He has Fleet as well, but it's what he doesn;t have that surprised me. Still no invul save, they removed his IC status (so he cannot join units), and they took away his Feel No Pain and Fearless! He's not really a Deathco Libby anymore. I mean, don't get me wrong, T6 with 5 wounds is still hard as all fuck, but no Eternal Warrior means he can still be force-weaponed or blissgivered into obilvion, and those wounds go fast if he's facing down a lot of power attacks.

Like before, he gets 3 powers per turn, in addition to his Transfixing Gaze (which now only works on a single IC in BtB and just lets Mephy reroll hit and wounds against him, if said IC fails a LD check at -4.). The good news is, the gaze doesn't count as a paychic attack anymore, the bad news is it kinda sucks. Unlike most high-level psykers, he does NOT have access to the entire arsenal of BA powers. Instead he gets three: The Sanguine Sword (gives him S10 for the duration of the assault phase), Wings of Sanguinius (JP power), and Unleash Rage...which is FUCKING USELESS. It gives him Preferred Enemy. Normally this is an OK power because it gives it to the unit the psyker is with as well...but Mephy isn't an IC anymore, and rerolling misses at WS7 isn't really that big a deal, and it undermines the usefulness of his transfixing gaze. Big fucking whoop. I'd rather have given him Fear, Might, Shield, just about any other power, really. Give a group buff to a loner...fucking brilliant. I see myself not using it in favor of saving a power use for his sword.

Mephy is nasty, dead killy and hard to stop, but I don't know if I see myself using him anymore. Compared to Tigger, he's 30 points heavier, a million times killier, a hundred times harder to kill, but one tenth as versatile. Mephy runs up and kills shit dead, that's all he does. Tigrus actually aids the army and can use his powers to support other units.

Tycho is...oh god, I can barely say it...he's...NOT LAME!
He's 75 over a normal captain (25 less than Sicarius), he has straight up cap'n stats, Arty Armor and some toys. His Combi-Melta now uses Sternguard ammo, which makes it actually useful. They also gave him a BP so he;s less useless for the combi-weapon. He apparently has something called The Dead Man's Hand which lets him fight like an MC (ignore armor, +1d6 penetration) and is also equipped with digital weapons so he rerolls wounds...ok, that's not bad. It's an LC that fucks tanks and gives a bonus attack. WAY better than the fist full of fail he used to bring to combat. He also gets his old Favored Enemy vs Orks, and he has Rites of Battle.

But wait, there's more! For free, you can drop his IC status, Rites of Battle and ATSKNF, and play him as Deathco Dante, giving him Rage, Fearless, FNP, Fleet, FC and Relentless...basically making hm USEFUL! For the first time in the long and sordid history of the chapter, Cap'n Bolter von Nipplemail is actually not terrible!

Cheaper than Sicarius, deathco Dante could probably take him in an honest scrap. Only problem is deathco dante can't join any units, even a death company, so he's another solo skirmish character. He's a good value though, if you want a killy character but can't afford the real scrappers, tycho isn't...oh god...he isn't a terrible choice.

Sadly, Moriar is not making a return. Bjorn is the only Dready special character left in the game, and I weep. Other familiar faces (like Corby and Lem) will be showing up later, but that's it for the HQ special characters.

Moving on to the normal HQ units...

Librarians are largely unchanged.Combi-weapons are 5 points cheaper and at that same price bracket you get an option for a Hand Flamer (1 less point of S and one worse AP than a normal flamer, counts as pistol), and for the same price point as a plas pistol you get an infernus pistol (6" melta pistol).Termie options are the same, but Storm Shield costs 5 more. Shockingly, you can now buy JPs again, so you aren't forced to use a psychic power to keep up with your escort unit. Bike and JP costs are the same.

BA Psychic Powers
Blood Boil: 12" shooting power, pick a unit in range, one model in the unit takes an auto-wound with no save or hit roll. Enemy chooses unless the test was 5 or less, in which case you choose. Meh.
Fear of the Darkness: Oh fuck yeah, the old broken bastard is back. Shooting power, 24" range, target unit makes a Morale test at -2 (normal modifiers apply, units that never fall back are immune). Expect most libbies to take this and start breaking your units as they flit around on their JPs.
Might of Heroes: Basically unchanged. Use at the start of either player's assault phase, if successful the libby or one other model in the unit gains +1d3 attacks for the phase.
Shackle Soul: 12" shooting power, until the end of the target unit's next turn it must pass a LD test if it wishes to move, run, shoot or assault. Fail the test you don't get to do the action. Meh.
Shield of Sanguinius: Like the wolves fog power, or the ork's KFF, it grants a 5+ cover save to the libby and any unit (friend or foe) within 6". Unlike the KFF it doesn't grant a better save to vehicles, and unlike the wolf power it isn't selective so the enemy gets it too. Not bad, but seems watered down.
Smite: Unchanged. Not a lemon-lime soda.
The Blood Lance: Shooting attack, extend a straight line 4d6" long from the libby's base. Any enemy unit in the path takes a S8 AP1 Lance hit. Friendlies and units in CC are unaffected. Since you're just extending a line from your base (in any direction, it says), you don't have to see your target, and it doesn't say anything about terrain stopping it, so good for popping tanks through walls. Expect debates and rage over it. Very nasty, will compete with Fear for favored shooting power.
The Sanguine Sword: Used at start of either player's assault phase, the libby's CC attacks are made at S10. It doesn't specifically say that it lasts for that phase only like might of heroes does or unleash rage...expect debate. Everyone will take this.
Unleash Rage: used at start of either player's assault phase, grants libby and unit Preferred Enemy until the end of the turn. Meh. Not bad, but not nearly as good as the other powers.
Wings of Sanguinius: Now that we have JPs again, there's no point to this except on Mephy or if you feel like turning a bike into a Jetbike. ultra-meh. Unless, of course you take it for a Libby Dread...then it;s funny as fuck.

Chaplain has been renamed to Reclusiarch and costs 30 more than his 'nilla counterpart, but gets +1 BS, +1 W, +1 I, and +1 A.
Is he worth it? I think so.He's basically a captain-level chappy, which is nice. Added bonus, our blood-flavored Liturgies also allows DC to reroll hit *and* wound on the charge. Weapon options are the same, like with libbies the combi-weapon is cheaper and you can have a hand flamer or infernus pistol. Sadly, JPs are 10 points more, making them the same price as for any other character! This effectively makes your BA chappy *40* points heavier than a vamilla (since you're not likely to take one without a JP)...now I'm not so sure he's worth it.

ADDITIONALLY! They changed the rules on the DC's Black Rage. It's just plain old Rage now, and there's no special rule in any of the chappies that lets them ignore it, so your DC will *always* rage towards the enemy. This makes the chaplain less of a mandatory character, but at the same time it makes the DC a little less useful.

I'm unhappy with this a a whole, but I guess it leaves me room for more librarians or killer ICs...

Captains cost the same. Storm shield costs 5 more, no Relic Blade, can have hand flamer and infernus, termie options are the same except storm shield is +5 points, NO MOUNTED ASSAULT RULE.

So basically, we get a one more net option (no relic blade, but two different new pistols), the shields cost more, and we get no special rule. This one is a loss. We got ripped off.

Honour Guard has morphed into a standard Command Squad with the biker option replaced by JPs (for a little over half the cost). Our champs are the same but cost 5 points more (and are called 'Blood Champions' because Blood Angels like reminding you they're DIFFERENT and DARK!), and our Chapter Banner costs 5 points more for no reason at all. Storm shields now count as a weapon choice (so you can't have, say, a PW, SB AND SS anymore) and cost 5 more We get hand flamer and infernus pistol options. And unlike 'nilla Honour Guard, we don't get Arty Armor, or even the option for it, and we're stuck at 5 men.

It seems like a ripoff on the surface...BUT

Our healer gets a Blood Grail instead of a Narth. What's the diff? Blood Grail gives FNP AND FC to *every BA unit within 6"*

That's right, not just the HG unit, *everyone* who's a BA and within 6". Buy a couple HG units, stagger them right and your whole assault spearhead can have FNP and Furious Charge. Fuckin Nasty.

Sadly, there is no blank slate Chapter Master available. If you want your own leader who's not a rebranded unique you'll have to tart up a Captain, Chappy or Libby.

Elites
Our elites slot is jam packed, with a lot of second-string character types filling the roster, such as...

Chaplains! You can now take a bog standard chappy as an Elites choice. Sadly, the JPs are still +10 over 'nillas, so you're paying more for the same guy, but now he's an elite option instead of an HQ. It's interesting, but I'm not sure if I'll be taking one any time soon. The main reasons to take a chappy are to lead your DC and to fill the mandatory HQ slot. Since the DC are uncontrollable and these guys burn a precious elite slot, there's not much reason left. They're still a killer assault leader though, so I can see it if you're not using the slots, especially if you are dead set on a chappy but don;t want to spend the extra points for a Rec.

Sanguinary Guard cost the same as Terminators, but have +1LD, the same armor save (bot no invul) and JPs and are Fearless. They come with Master Crafted 2-handed PWs (sadly, they are not relic blades and do not grant strength bonuses). Their ranged weapon is the equivalent of a 12" AP4 Storm Bolter. It's ok, but not great. For about 5 points each the whole unit gets Death Masks (anyone they assault has to pass an LD test or fight at WS1 for the first phase). One unit can also have an overpriced chapter banner. Any of them can trade their blade for a PF (for what a normal marine pays, less the cost of a PW), or their angelus boltgun for an infernus or plas pistol for the same price. No meltabomb option.

Slightly more fragile but a lot more maneuverable than termies. Less shooty (except at short range), but with grenades and PWs they can strike faster. I think they're pretty well matched for termies.

Furioso Dreads are about 20 more than normal dreads, BUT come with AV13 front and +2 to their WS. They come with a pair of 'Blood Fists' which are DIFFERENT and DARK versions of DCCWs...no mechanical difference whatsoever. One has a storm bolter (upgradable to HF) one has a meltagun. They have Red Thirst, and the pair of DCCWs grants them a bonus attack. However, it;s their options that really kick ass.

Replace one of your CCWs with a Frag Cannon...which is like a super mecha-shotgun. (S6, Assault *2* Template with Rending), for free. You pick which one, so you could replace the melta one and throw out three nasty templates in one go.
Replace your DCCWs with "Blood Talons" for free. Blood Talons are Lightning Claws (so S6, reroll wound, ignore armor), that grant a bonus attack for every unsaved wound they inflict...and if THOSE attacks caused unsaved wounds (at S6 ignore saves? Yeah...) THEY generate bonus attacks, and so on and so on until you either stop generating unsaved wounds, or you run out of fuckers to murder.

Seriously, that's fucking mental! You give up your ability to threaten tanks but gain the ability to RAPE infantry in CC. And you retain your built in weapons (melta, sb, flamer, etc)

For the same price as Extra Armor you cna take a Magna-Grapple, which is a 12" S8, AP2 weapon that if it hits the vehicle (even if it fails to glance or penetrate) lets you grapple the fucker. Roll a d6 and add 8, if that number is lower than the highest AV on the vehicle nothing happens. If it's equal to or greater than the target's highest AV you drag the fucker 2d6" towards you, stopping if it gets within 1" of another vehicle, difficult or impassable terrain, or an assault. Non-vehicles in the way are tank shocked. BRUTAL

For some reason we have to buy spotlights now. Good way to use stray points, I guess...

Oh, and for 50 you can upgrade your Furioso to a Librarian. He gets a hood, a Force Weapon (gives up a DCCW, must choose which to use but it does grant a bonus attack either way), and two powers which includes Wings of Sang. He only gets one power use per turn, but yes, flying dreads FTW. Hard to say what powers would be good here, but expect wings just for shits and giggles. LD10 for the purpose of psychic tests, perils = glance.

No venerable or DC upgrades, sadly.

Terminators of both regular and assautl flavor are unchanged, except our Hammer/Shield assault erems are +5. Fuck! I hate these fucking 'fixes' where they break something in an earlier codex, nerf the new codex, and then leave the same hole unplugged in the one that broke it in the first place.

Techmarines are unchanged. Instead of a bike option we can trade the servo arm for a free JP, but they are NOT ICs. Our servitors cost 5 points extra for no reason. They don't have mindlock, but then they're no longer a different unit so it's not really a bonus

Sternguard are unchanged

Sanguinary Priests are back! You can have 1-3 for a single Elites slot, they cost the same as a techmarine but have +1 WS and LD and are ICs. They have Chalices (gives FNP to any BA within 6") and the standard array of character upgrade weapons, along with JPs, Bikes and Termie armor.

Basically thanks to these fuckers you can pretty much make your whole army FNP and FC. Burn a couple elites slots and you can give them to pretty much every squad. Have fun with that.

Corbulo comes back here as well. a little more than twice the price of a normal SP, he has +1 BS, Wounds, I, and A over a normal SP, his chainswoord, once useless, is now S5 and Rending, his chalice gives *him* a 2+ FNP check, and the satandard FNP and FC to BA within 6". He also has a special ability that gives you one reroll, for ANYTHING, even siexing the initiative.But you only get one and if he does before you use it you lose it. That's fucking awesome for a cheap IC who uses 1/3rd of an elites slot.

Expect to see lots of SPs.

Troops

Tactical Squads are basically the same.Sarges can take homers for +15. No hand flamer, no infernus pistol

Death Company are a troops choice, BUT the normal limit is 0-1 and they NEVER count as scoring. The good news is, they're optional. The bad news is they're still expensive. 20 points hoofing, 35 flying. WS 5, A2, Rage, Fearless, FNP, FC, Relentless. No more Rending. Max squad size is 30(!!), any can have PW, PF, or Hammer for the standard costs. Every five models can have a hand flamer, infernus or plasma pistol.

Lemartes is back, and though he's more expensive now, he remains underpriced for what he does. He's 50 points more than a standard chappy but comes with a JP, I6, a master crafted PW, and if he's wounded (but not killed) he hulks out, S and A both changing to 5 for the remainder of the game. Expect debates over "Suffers an unsaved wound" is before or after FNP comes into play. Ou, I almost forgot to mention, Lemmy is now a member of the DC, so he also has furious charge and Feel No Pain. The only problem is if you have him you have to either walk your DC or give them packs since you cannot put his JP into a transport (except the stormraven)

Death Company Dreads are troops now as well. You may have one for every 5 DC models. Sadly, they cost the same as a Furioso but with only AV12 Front and WS5, but they do get +1A. They come with Fleet, Furious Charge, Rage, and an ability that lets them ignore Shaken and Stunned. They can take blood talons (fuck yeah, with furious charge) for free, upgrade their SB to a HF, take a Grapple and a Searchlight, and that's it.

It's kinda lame that they're actually *downgraded* from furiosos, but they cost the same and are nasty in their own right. Good if you don't have any elites slots to spare.

Scouts are back as a Troops choice, huzzah! Unfortunately the HB does NOT come with Hellfire shells, but still costs the same! WTF?! They get homers instead of locators for 10 less.

Assault Squads are still Troops, and are the samme as regular SM assault squads, but with more options! The 'every five models' upgrade weapons now include full on plasma guns and meltas, as well as hand flamers and infernus pistols (above and beyond the normal flamer/pp), likewise the sarge gets hand flamer and infernus options.

If you take them on foot you get a 35 point discount on your transport.

Dedicated Transports
Now here's an interesting change!

In addition to rhinos and razors, *all* Land Raiders are now Dedicated Transport options only. They are not available as HS choices, BUT *any* unit capable of taking a transport can have one if you pay the points. Tacticals, honour guard, terminators, doesn't matter. Any unit with a transport option (except termies and dreads) may select 8any* dedicated transport. Termies are limited to LRs and pods, dreads are limited to pods.

Rhinos and Razors are Fast now, and cost 15 points more. However, TL Heavy Flamer is a free upgrade for razorbacks. Otherwise ucnhanged (except we have to pay for spotlights), troop capacity is back down to SW levels. It seems the increased capacity in the SM dex must've been a misprint or something.

As stated before, all Land raiders may now Deep Strike (models inside may not assault the turn they arrive). As per normal, vehicles arriving from deep strike count as having moved Cruising Speed.

Fast Attack

Vanguard Vets are the same as normal, but 10 points cheaper for the base unit (their JPs still cost too much). No relic blades but the sarge can trade his PW for an encarmine glaive (the 2 handed Master crafted PWs the SGs use) or LC for free, so for anyone worried that the introduction of vanguard vets was a nefarious scheme to make you buy a BA VV sarge model in addition to the normal models can rest comfortably. Infernus pistols and hand flamers are options for them all, in addition to the normal stuff.

Heroic intervention combined with descent of Angels is pretty nasty. Makes them actually worth taking, maybe. Just in case you needed yet another elite JP unit.

Land Speeders, Bikers, Scout bikers and Attack Bikes are unchanged. No hand flamers or infernusses

Baal Predators are 55 points over a normal predator but are Fast and come with TL Assault Cannons in the turret. Heavy Flamer Sponsons cost what HBs cost on a regular pred, and HBs on the Baal cost 5 more. Can swap out the asscans for a Flamestorm cannon for free (the same as the redeemer sponson weapon). They also have Scouts, which combined with their Fast status is brutal. The Lucifer engines are way better than OCEs, all in all still worth it.

Heavy Support

Dreadnoughts because we totally need more of those. Exactly the same as normal except with Red Thirst. Missile Launcher and TLAC are 5 points cheaper, everything else is the same.

Stormravens are kinda meh. 50 points less than a raider, AV 12 all around, Fast, Skimmer, TLAssCan, TLHB, four Bloodstrike Missiles (Basically HKMs with 72" range and AP1),immune to melta bonus damage, Deep Strike, POTMS, Assault Vehicle, and a special disembark like the Valh has for if the thing is moving flat out and you feel like bailing anyhow.(normal models make a dangerous terrain test, JPs land safely and use discent of angels to scatter less), can't assault after bailing out like that. Can carry 12 models (JPs and termies count double), and/or one dread.

Can replace the TLHB with TLMM for free, or Typhoon launcher for 25, can swap TLAssCan for TLPlasCan or TLLC for free, can take aLocator beacon for the same price as Extra Armor, and Hurricane bolter sponsons for twice that. Not really a fan That's a lot of points for AV12.

Predators are 10 over normal but are FAST, sponsons cost 5 more regardless of type.

Whirlwinds cost 5 points more and are FAST

Vindicators are *30* points more and are FAST....that's a huge price bump, but I think considering they can still take the doom shovel upgrade and now whiz around at 12" firing their vindi-cannon, I think it's fair. Maybe a little harsh.

Devastator Squads are the same, but the weapons are cheaper. HB/MM/ML are 5 less, Plascan and Lascan are 10 less.

No Thunderfire cannons or Venerable Dreads.

All in all, I like it. It suffers a lot of the same problems that SM had, only a couple things were cheapened, and several things were made more expensive. That said, they have a lot of new and interesting choices, some of which are really strong.

I don't see this as a game breaker, and I'd say they're probably still below Space Wolves in terms of power, but an upgrade from what they once were, and an upgrade from the nillas.

-=============]xxxxo Galahad oxxxx[=============-
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post #2 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 09:32 AM
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Awesome review mate, it really makes it all clear I might suggest a bit of a sum up of your thoughts about the army at the end there, just to finish it off, since you've come so far already I think BAs will be a very tough nut to crack looking at all this - They aren't all *that* much more in terms of cost, but they get huge benefits altogether. It's always easiest to get a feel for the power level of an army by watching them play of course, so we'll see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad View Post
Well, my [url=https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47213]He also comes with a big fuckin sword that grants him S8 and Rending. And (here comes the fuel for debate) even though it's described as being two-handed, nothing SAYS it denies him a bonus attack for his BP. There is no two-handed rule anymore, and most two-handed weapons (like relic blades) explicitly deny bonus attacks. No such for his Blood Reaver (or those bigass power swords the sang guard for that matter).
BUT you only get the +1 attack bonus for having 2 Single-Handed CCWs On P37 of the BRB, rather that in the CCW rules, it's very explicit. So if it actually describes it as 2 handed, no luck there They'll have to be downgraded from "God-like" to "Uber".

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Last edited by maddermax; 03-23-10 at 09:50 AM.
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post #3 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 10:11 AM
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Seems interesting. Some things are better than rumoured, others are worse.

I can't wait to see Nid players faces when a DC Furioso charges their Trygon and bitchslaps it off the board...

And random combo: Libby Dreadnaught with Unleashed Rage and a Blood Talon. Rerolls to hit, rerolls to wound, and consequently LOTS of attacks. It wouldn't surprise me to see this cutting its way through 10 infantry per turn. 3s to hit, 2s to wound with rerolls to both. Nasty.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #4 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 10:12 AM
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>> Another quality review Gal, as always. Dex looks like it gonna be lethal. Not being a BA player/fan I dont know how much is different. Only thing I cannae get is the DS Land Raiders. Did 'Bob the idiot rule troll' escape from the cupboard again. As I said looks good, but not enough to turn me from my beloved Wolves. Was gonna gie you some rep, but apparantly I got to 'spread the rep around' before i give you more.


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post #5 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 10:39 AM
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using a 2 handed weapon stops you gaining an extra attack for having another CCW. the rulebook says it, common sense says it, the future errata/faq will say it. anyone i play who tries different(unless they reverse that rule officially in a faq) against me will prolly get an exorcist to the head(the GW one at that!). other than that, this was a really good read, and full of info. hats off to you mate.

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post #6 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 12:23 PM
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Outstanding review matey!

Let the Galaxy Burn.
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post #7 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 12:34 PM
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Only way to negate the no bonous for 2H weapon is a piece fo wargear that allows you a +1 attack even if you are using a 2h weapon....IE Tormentor Helm

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post #8 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 04:26 PM
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Wow, nice review, very nice indeed. Im not much for the Blood Angels, but now im really tempted to give a Dread/Tank heavy army a spin since it seems like it will be insanly fun to play.

Plus i think some of the minarture are just soo sexy its unreal.
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post #9 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Baaaah! This is what happens when I stay up several hours past my bedtime to get shit typed up. Of course, it;s been pointed out that while there is no 2-handed weapons rule anymore, the rules for bonus attacks do specify single-handed CCWs, so yeah, I was off base on that. Even the best of us slips up now and them. I can blame extreme sleepiness though . I edited the post with a lime line where I first mention it explaining the fuckup, then I edited subsequent mentions.

That said, I think the encarmine blade is a piece of shit.
Giving up a bonus attack for a *single* reroll? Fuck that noise.
It isn't so bad on the guard because most of them are carrying bolters as well, but it's still shit.

They couldn't have given them a strength bonus for it? Maybe not full on relic blade, but at least a +1?

Bah, oh well. All in all, it's not a bad dex. Not entirely sure what to make of it at the moment, but it's worth a go.

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post #10 of 172 (permalink) Old 03-23-10, 06:24 PM
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great review
this is one of the codices that I will just pick up to have, even though i might never make a blood angels army

Im a big fan of the new furiosos though, if i were to make a blood angels army, I would almost max out in dreads

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Last edited by DarKKKKK; 03-23-10 at 06:27 PM.
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