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post #731 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VanitusMalus View Post
I'm actually going to argue both sides of the coin on this one:

Concerning individuals using codexes from other armies as the rules for their army that is totally fine with me. If you feel your Night Lords army is better suited with the BA codex than the Chaos Space Marine one than that is fine. As along you well define what is what and I can see that I have no problem with it.

However on the darker side of that coin. If you try and use the Tyranids Codex with a bunch of IG yeah sorry not going to fly and you can make up whatever weird ass story you like, but I will never believe that model of Solar Macharius has the same stat line and special rules as a Tyranid Hive Tyrant.

This is more of an argument of believability. If you have an army painted up as a Chaos facton you created that is similar rules wise to Space Wolves, than in friendly games there should be no problem with facing that force, however if you have an army of Eldar, painted up in Chaos colours and you are trying to use the Chaos Space Marine codex, I might have an issue with that.
Pretty much agree with all of the above.

Only thing i dont like is when people jump between marine codecies depending on which one is more powerful.

If someone wanted to use the Blood Angels codex to represent Night Lords then thats fair enough, purely for the fact that the Blood Angels codex fits the Night Lords fluff better, providing that the player sticks to units that chaos would have access too (no Land Speeders etc).

When people jump between codecies because they are more powerful, and not because of fluff reasons, then i have an issue with it.

If someone ran a Khorne army using the Blood Angels codex i would still let them play, but i would look down on them considering a whole army of Berzerkers with jump packs is unfluffy, and you can still make a perfectly fluffy and very effective Khorne army with the current CSM codex.


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post #732 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 08:02 PM
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First!
Counts-as lists are tricky. The nid list would work if you made a 'stealer cult army using the nids list and simply made the models look the part, no? Just no TMCs.

I'll drop the little spamfest after this, I just saw a few comments that were a little too... glaring to drop. Attacking me for what I say while ignoring half of the words I words is a pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by pathwinder14 View Post
Wow, Could you use any more cuss words? How old are you? 15? Do you have the capability to argue without cussing? Did I cuss at you? Was I derogatory towards you?
I appologize; I curse a great deal. This is a forum that allows cursing. I use f-bombs as a sometimes overused but always expressive part of the language. I'm sorry if it feels like a personal attack. It's really down to being to lazy to edit instances of the words out of my initial draft although initial draft makes it sound like there's any sort of quality control whatsoever, which would be a blatant falsehood. If my unwillingess to filter that part of what I say out bothers you then I appologize and encourage to not take me as seriously.

Quote:
People like you are what's wrong with this game. You come off as a crybaby uber power gamer child that used your parents money to buy an army you'll never paint and never really learn how to play. There's more to Khornate armies than jump pack Berserkers.
So, I'm a powergamer for arguing that other people who would rather not play a powerfull but unfluffy list should be able to play a current list that matches their desired playstyle? Would you rather they play the 3.5 codex or something? This list apears powerfull in that configuration than a cult of Khorne list made from the chaos dex.
I don't play any MEQ armies. I stated that this was all in defense of players who wanted to do this. Calling me a power gamer because I defend behavior that does not benefit me in the slightest is rediculous. I'd rather people brought a good list to the table, no matter what they want to play. The fact that loyalists are getting all the love these days show not prevent Khorne from drinking Eldar blood.

Do I want other people to "powergame"? Yes. "Casual" games are all fine and good, but I'd like people to play to win. To me, that's fun. Even if they beat me.

Quote:
Oh, and while you're at it please learn how to play your chaos codex. It is very effective and can still make nasty armies.
Where on earth did you get the impression that I play Chaos? I said that I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathwinder14 View Post
I rarely get into flame wars but Cyklown started cussing when I simply stated the Chaos Codex could be very competitive. He needs to grow up a bit. Here's how to build a competitive Khornate army in 2000 points.

Khorne DP
Kharn the Betrayer
2 units of Berserkers in Rhino
1 unit of Berserkers in a LR
2 units of 3 Oblits
If that's not close to 2000 points I'm sure you could get more fun stuff like a Lascannon Predator.
I already hit the cursing side of things, so:

I said competitive, not "amusing/cool and not entirely terribad". I'm not claiming it's a Wraithguard and Swooping Hawks theme army. I'm saying that if I'm actually trying to make a "good" army rather than a "fun army I'd be willing to play" then the chaos list does not allow you to play Khorne or really anything else particularly fluffy.

People who want to use jet-pack based assault OR cc monster MEQs currently have two lists available. They've both been made for loyalists.

In any case, the thought proccess runs to "this would be fun to field", while laudible, is not something that belongs in a discussion about viable lists. I'll play "fun" games too but if I'm not explicitly playing casually, I play to win. Which is, of course, different from being any good at it. I hope the people I'm playing against will play to win. A different attitude doesn't stop us from playing the same game, or even from enjoying a game together from time to time. It should, however, stop you from talking about the competitive side of the game while your "just for fun" hat is on. You may very well be good without a competitive list, heck you're likely better at the tabletop side of the game than me. You'd be better if you added a bit more science rather than art to your army lists, however.

In any case, I'll take it up with you both in PM, if you want. There's no reason to make everyone else put up with my immaturity and your not reading what I say. ;)

Heck, depending on how things go we can maybe get a game in, if stomping a powergaming "chaos player"'s eldar army will make you feel better about me needing the most baddass list possible to try to win.

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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
I'm probably going to follow my usual Eldar tactic of driving around the table "circling and screaming 'I don't give a fuck' with my windows down and system up" and avoiding anything that looks scary.
Her(?) name may be slightly inapropriate, but she just needs love! And I just need to eat your face!

Last edited by Cyklown; 03-13-10 at 09:27 PM. Reason: It's marginally shorter now.
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post #733 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 08:04 PM
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EDIT: Ninja'ed by the defendant, left here for posterity anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathwinder14 View Post
Wow, Could you use any more cuss words? How old are you? 15? Do you have the capability to argue without cussing? Did I cuss at you? Was I derogatory towards you?

People like you are what's wrong with this game. You come off as a crybaby uber power gamer child that used your parents money to buy an army you'll never paint and never really learn how to play. There's more to Khornate armies than jump pack Berserkers.

I have been playing since 1993. I have used every edition of the Chaos Codex. I still own them too. I have been to 2 Official GW GT's (Chicago 2001 and 2002 - back when GW actually produced a GT circuit). I have also competed in a Golden Daemon. I failed to place but got good marks from the judges. I have painted over 7 armies to better than tabletop quality standards. Click the link in my Sig to visit my humble site. Oh, and while you're at it please learn how to play your chaos codex. It is very effective and can still make nasty armies.
In the comments aimed at you, he swore once. Specifically "fucking brilliant". my interpretation of that is that he is expressing his annoyance at the poor unit choices forced on him by an inadequate codex, not him swearing at you.

Every single other swearword is directed at GW (a sentiment I'm sure a lot of us can empathise with, at one point or another) for not giving him a codex capable of creating a competitive list based around one of the 5 primary chaos legions.

I personally think that YOU have been far more insulting and childish in your response than Cyklown ever was in his original post. You come across as an arrogant dick who'd rather see the world of warhammer burnt to ashes around you then accept that there are people who have been playing for LESS time than you who might have valid complaints with current products.

Either that or you catastrophically mis-interpreted his post, either way, I'd throw out an apology if I was in your shoes.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #734 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 08:16 PM
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Can we please get this thread back on topic?

I want to hear more discussion about Blood Angels, and less personal arguments and bitching.
If you feel the need to continue the argument, then take it to PM's. Nobody else wants to hear it.


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post #735 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KingOfCheese View Post
Can we please get this thread back on topic?

I want to hear more discussion about Blood Angels, and less personal arguments and bitching.
If you feel the need to continue the argument, then take it to PM's. Nobody else wants to hear it.
Thats a good idea. Lets go for that one.


Just been looking at the pics on GW UK and Im tempted with the idea of all jump packs.
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post #736 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 09:40 PM
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So, thoughts on defeating them?

It still seems like metal boxes are the way to go, although moving 12" makes the boxes less OMFGawesome. Combine that with judicious application of powerfists and... there you go. S6 attacks on the charge from certain units probably wouldn't help either.

It's downright magical that this is the first skimmer I've seen that doesn't have av10 for the purposes of CC. The monolith doesn't count. It's not a skimmer so much as something that just so happens to float there. Heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
I'm probably going to follow my usual Eldar tactic of driving around the table "circling and screaming 'I don't give a fuck' with my windows down and system up" and avoiding anything that looks scary.
Her(?) name may be slightly inapropriate, but she just needs love! And I just need to eat your face!
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post #737 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 10:16 PM
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I know it seems obvious but bunch the army together and start shooting at the nearest unit that can cause the most damage with a lot.

Personally I set up with dark reapers and pathfinders in a building and they are the fire support. I then set up a bait with guardians and a wraithlord for the jumpacks to race towards. Then I have a jetbike autarch and full squad of bladestorming dire avengers hanging in a wave serpent. Finally my "lone wolves" consisting of a falcon and fire dragons go on tank hunting missions and after independant characters that do not benefit from eternal warrior like Dante, Mephiston and Lemartes for example.

Having already played them they are probably the only army bar tyranids that scare me with how fast they get into combat.


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post #738 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 10:26 PM
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Tsons time maybe?

Let the Galaxy Burn.
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post #739 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 10:29 PM
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I'm probably going to follow my usual Eldar tactic of driving around the table "circling and screaming 'I don't give a fuck' with my windows down and system up" and avoiding anything that looks scary.

My Scout army is probably F'd in the A though.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #740 of 958 (permalink) Old 03-13-10, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathwinder14 View Post
Wow, Could you use any more cuss words? How old are you? 15? Do you have the capability to argue without cussing? Did I cuss at you? Was I derogatory towards you?
ITT: Pathwinder is oversensitive and was much more insulting than he claims Cyklown was.


On topic.
I don't understand why people think vanilla Assault Marines aren't good, they're perfectly fine.
I mean, they're more expensive than Tactical Marines, and they aren't scoring, but those aren't really problems; cost because you aren't even paying for a Transport (which seems to be obligatory these days), and scoring because they're charging into the enemy, they're more useful to contest.
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