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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Default 8th Edition Starter Box Contents and Details

The latest information on the coming 8th Edition!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natfka
Starter Set

The starter set goes live the 17th and is going to be Death Guard Vs. Ultramarines, $120 box. Chaos gets a blob of cultists, a few terminators, a few plague marines, a lord, and drones. Loyalists get 2 tactical squads, a devastator, an assault squad, plus a librarian and a captain. Comes with dice and rulers as well.

In addition, there will be the standard soft cover core rules booklet and a small campaign book. The campaign book has the stats for all the dudes in the box, plus a series of narrative missions that set up the ground floor for the first real story arc of the new edition.
If my calculation is correct that $120 is around 70 for me and my fellow Englishmen. The DG side sounds fun, though i'd think that Cultists are Plague Zombies and the Terminators will be the new Plague Terminator kit, really hoping that the Lord is also a dedicated Nurgle unit. Space Marines sound pretty typical, not sure where these new mega-marines are but these details are pretty rough.

Basic rules book is a plus, though i'll probably get the hardback version for the lore and other stuff down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natfka
Codex

AoS was very much a test kitchen for what to expect of the “New Warhammer 40k”. AoS had a rocky start, but they learned from their mistakes, and recently even AoS has surpassed 40k in some regards.

The battle tome will become the template for the codex, not the other way around. Each dex will get the special army wide rules, 6-12 relics, 6 warlord traits, and 6 psychic powers, only now it’s written that you can chose to ether select or roll on warlord/psychic charts. It will also contain full rules and points for all the old and new units in a given army, and special rules for things like warbands, campaigns, narrative missions and the like.

Formations are back, but they cost points now, and so are decurons, but they will be a lot more flexible and take cues from their AoS counterparts.
Since I agree with that statement, AoS definitely surpassed 7th edition 40k and became the better game despite a rocky start, this sounds damn good to me. The switch to the Battletome model is a brilliant move since they are vastly and clearly superior to the old codexs, the Battletomes feel worth the money by giving you all the extra stuff that the rule booklets in the boxes and the apps don't give you, as well as providing lots of painting ideas and options, lore and extra stuff.

Not liking formations with points though. It's a mistake in AoS and it's a mistake here, the formations cost too much while the rules they provide don't really feel worth the cost. Plus, admittedly this is personal, I have never found a formation I actually liked, they all contain some stuff I like and some stuff I don't want, I've never found a single formation where I liked all of it and wanted to run the entire thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natfka
Overview

6th and 7th edition suffered from growing pains and an identity crisis. GW spent a good amount of time and money figuring out what they want 8th edition to really feel like, and are using what they learned in 40k 6th-7th edition and AoS V1.0-1.2 to rebuild 40k from the ground up. They want new players to feel less intimidated by the dense lore and setting, but want to keep returning players invested in the storyline. Black library is going to do a soft reboot for some of the new 40k lore books, with a gimmicky “New Warhammer” type flagship launch to, as I said before, lay-down a ground floor for the upcoming 8th edition.
Sounds good. I do agree that 6th and 7th never really attracted me because of the density of rules, values to remember, various modifiers that felt excessive and half the time feeling like I didn't accomplish much in a game (armour value on tanks being a particular dislike). Not sure what the soft reboot means but what I've read on the various BL groups is that new releases will be telling the new stories as they come, but the previous settings won't be ignored.


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Night View Post
The latest information on the coming 8th Edition!
I have not played the last two editions of 40K but the news and rumors about 8th edition are starting to get me excited.

Quote:
The DG side sounds fun, though i'd think that Cultists are Plague Zombies and the Terminators will be the new Plague Terminator kit, really hoping that the Lord is also a dedicated Nurgle unit. Space Marines sound pretty typical, not sure where these new mega-marines are but these details are pretty rough.
I've probably got all the SM figures I'll ever need, but the chaos faction sounds interesting. I've never actually played CSM but if I did it would probably be DG or TS. I find them the most visually interesting. If I did do DG I wonder if I be better off buying the box and selling off the SM figures, or just buying the DG figures of eBay when other people start breaking up their boxes?

Quote:
The switch to the Battletome model is a brilliant move since they are vastly and clearly superior to the old codexs, the Battletomes feel worth the money by giving you all the extra stuff that the rule booklets in the boxes and the apps don't give you, as well as providing lots of painting ideas and options, lore and extra stuff.
Agreed! I wonder, will GW have an app for 40K like try do for AoS that allows you to buy the new codexes electronically? I know a lot of people still like paper books, but I have found that much easier and more convenient for AoS.

Quote:
Not liking formations with points though. It's a mistake in AoS and it's a mistake here, the formations cost too much while the rules they provide don't really feel worth the cost.
This is the view of an outsider but one of the things that kept me out of 40K was the impression that free formations were broken. I think they may be trying to fight that impression by making them more a theme choice than a power choice in 8th? I know I like the formations in AoS mainly for creating thematic forces, rather than game winning combos as IMO they seldom seem to produce optimum army lists.

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing more about 8th edition 40K.



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Last edited by Mdauben; 05-13-17 at 06:22 PM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 09:22 PM
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That actually sounds like decent bang for your buck, ....in fact I'm slightly suspicious! Quibbles and niggling fear of the unknown aside, I'm beginning to get a little excited for this release, which at my age happens more slowly

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Night View Post
Since I agree with that statement, AoS definitely surpassed 7th edition 40k and became the better game despite a rocky start, this sounds damn good to me. The switch to the Battletome model is a brilliant move since they are vastly and clearly superior to the old codexs, the Battletomes feel worth the money by giving you all the extra stuff that the rule booklets in the boxes and the apps don't give you, as well as providing lots of painting ideas and options, lore and extra stuff.

Not liking formations with points though. It's a mistake in AoS and it's a mistake here, the formations cost too much while the rules they provide don't really feel worth the cost. Plus, admittedly this is personal, I have never found a formation I actually liked, they all contain some stuff I like and some stuff I don't want, I've never found a single formation where I liked all of it and wanted to run the entire thing.
That's your opinion. In mine, AoS quite frankly took the simplification too far. It wasn't better than 7th edition 40k and it still isn't as the game relies too much on luck and the skill cap is simply too low.

Regarding Battletomes, you're going to have to explain your enthusiasm, because as far as I can tell, the proposed format contains roughly the contents of a current Codex with a few added paint tutorial pages slapped in. So... nothing really changes, yay?

Regarding formations, I don't think they should ever have been free. If you're giving an army an advantage (and things like the Emperor's Wrath artillery battery that made pie plates Twin-Linked DEFINITELY were an advantage) it should cost points, just like adding extra members to your army or having them carry bigger guns. Giving them a point cost might also help eliminate the 'formation tax' of having GW put units in there you don't actually WANT to run.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-17, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post

Regarding formations, I don't think they should ever have been free. If you're giving an army an advantage (and things like the Emperor's Wrath artillery battery that made pie plates Twin-Linked DEFINITELY were an advantage)
lets not forget it allowed you to run 6 basilisks in 2 squadrons and give them all split fire



New starter box looks good, I might even be picking it up whenever it releases.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-17, 03:21 PM
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lets not forget it allowed you to run 6 basilisks in 2 squadrons and give them all split fire
And then there's the big one, those formations that don't even pretend to give you interesting rules but outright give you free units. The Space Marines using a Gladius' Strike Force Battle Company add at least two hundred and more likely 400+ points of transports to a 1850 point army.

But that's only on top of the special rules they already get for the Demi Company and having 20-30% more army value is obviously completely fair...

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-17, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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The Space Marines using a Gladius' Strike Force Battle Company add at least two hundred and more likely 400+ points of transports to a 1850 point army.

But that's only on top of the special rules they already get for the Demi Company and having 20-30% more army value is obviously completely fair...
Your forgetting the fact that in order to get those free transports that army needs to pay a 1045 point minimum tax. And thats only to have the proper squads/bodies on the ground, zero upgrades have been included yet (like more bodies, special/heavy weapons, close combat weapons, or an aux formation that is not the 10th company strike force.)

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-17, 03:59 PM
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In general I prefer leaving formations and super-heavies to Apocalypse.

Formations/decurons being free and/or stackable with additional formations/decurons always drove me the wrong way.

----

I know that they experimented with it very briefly in 6th of each army having an alternative FOC, in addition to the generic one, but that route to me seemed like the better idea. Unfortunately the DE one that came out was awful, at least locally, and it seemed that the idea was scrapped quickly thereafter.

These alternative FOCs would/should be built for more fluffy/themed armies rather than WAAC requirements.

----

If Formations return to their 4th ed Apoc ideals (fluffy) and mixed with a little bit of Apoc:reloaded (build to X formations) that grant a strategic asset (command points now?) and are less current 7th ed formations/decurons then I will be optimistic.

----

I wouldn't mind the idea of FOC swapping units (via characters and/or upgrades) seen from 5th edition returning either. I personally would love its return.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-14-17, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
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Your forgetting the fact that in order to get those free transports that army needs to pay a 1045 point minimum tax. And thats only to have the proper squads/bodies on the ground, zero upgrades have been included yet (like more bodies, special/heavy weapons, close combat weapons, or an aux formation that is not the 10th company strike force.)
I'm not forgetting that at all. If an SM player builds a Battle Company, THAT IS WHAT IT DOES. Yes, the player needs to commit to it, but it's not a 1045 point tax as they're going to be bringing a good number of those units regardless (it's a rare Marine army that doesn't have at least the units of a Demi-Company in it) and 1850 would still allow 800 points for those upgrades.

Compared to building the exact same army with a normal CAD, the only thing the Space Marine player is losing is the Warlord reroll (but can grab a set one with a named character). The Demi-Company still has Objective Secured (except ON ALL UNITS, not just the Troops), and gets Tactical Flexibility thrown in for free.

That's already an advantage - the full Battle Company just makes it worse by throwing in the free units. In a competitive game that measures (initial) army equality by points, advantages should cost points. It's really that simple.
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