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post #241 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 04:51 PM
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From https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

New Warhammer 40,000: Points & Power Levels



In the new Warhammer 40,000, you’ll find there are two ways to balance your games.
Yesterday, we saw that Datasheets include something called a Power Level. This is a rough approximation of a unit’s relative effectiveness on the battlefield. These can be used to very quickly throw together two roughly equal forces to fight a battle. Or, in the case of some narrative and open play scenarios, will determine who takes what role in the game. For example, if you’re playing the “Ambush” mission, the side with the highest total Power Level for their army will always play the role of the attacker, where the smaller enemy force will need to escape the trap.


Power Levels are a great way to very quickly get a roughly balanced game organised and started, but they do not account for the various wargear options and upgrades a unit can have. For this level of granularity, you have points. These will be just as detailed as they are now, right down to points for individual weapon upgrades on every squad member. For example, a Tactical Marine Squad of five models is Power Level 5, but in a matched play game, each of those Tactical Marines would cost 13 points each, with upgrades ranging from a grav-pistol for the Sergeant at 7 pts, all the way up to multi-meltas at 27 pts. The full squad totals up at a similar number of points to what it costs today. With faster play times for most games, we’re expecting matched play games of a couple of hours to sit around the 2,000 points mark.
In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this. You won’t need to specify what the points will be for though, so this does leave you with your options open and if during the game, you decide that what you really need is a fast combat unit instead of a durable objective holder, you’ll be able to summon the right tool for the job, points permitting. You will no longer be able to indefinitely replicate Daemon units, and instead, summoning will be used more as an alternative mechanism of deployment, much like deep striking or outflanking is today (both of which exist in their own forms in the new Warhammer 40,000 too).
The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book. This is because you don’t need them to play if you don’t want, which frees up room to include more rules for weapons on the datasheet. It also means that, in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.
All cool stuff. We’ll be back tomorrow with another piece of new background from the new edition.

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post #242 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 04:52 PM
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No more summon spam and points will most likely stay very close to what they are now for the newer armies since the tac squad is staying mostly the same in cost.
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post #243 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 05:30 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that if you leave 200pts in reserve, and have the units available, you can decide which unit, be it an assault, tactical or HS unit, to bring on, so long as the final points total you have on the table does not exceed the game limit? That's actually pretty cool.
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post #244 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 07:37 PM
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Yeah, that's how I was reading it too. While it limits what spam was, it seems to make it much more defined and adaptable to the situation to me.
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post #245 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that if you leave 200pts in reserve, and have the units available, you can decide which unit, be it an assault, tactical or HS unit, to bring on, so long as the final points total you have on the table does not exceed the game limit? That's actually pretty cool.
I think the 200 points is for summoning. In that you cannot summon past your starting army, so instead of building a 2k army + Summoning, you fielding a 1500 army with (500) as summoned points.

For instance a "summoned" unit for the Imperium could be LotD... or Kaldor Draigo?

----

That said if Summoning works across the board and it's effectively Deep Strike, then I might be worried, but if it is curtailed a lot so that it's more a Chaos kind of thing I would be very happy.

----

If you put a unit of terminators in reserve/deep strike/out flank then it will still be terminators.

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post #246 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 10:38 PM
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More good stuff, roll on release date! I'm still thinking warhammer fest.
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post #247 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
If you put a unit of terminators in reserve/deep strike/out flank then it will still be terminators.
I'm not sure you do put a specific unit in reserve, my read is that you put a portion of your points in reserves, and then get to spend them on whatever is most useful when the time comes to bring them on. Otherwise why mention it at all? They just mentioned that summoning is no longer an endless supply of units, just another way to bring reserves onto the board.

EDIT: Read that paragraph again, I think you might be right. It does mention summoning a lot.
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Last edited by Khorne's Fist; 05-12-17 at 11:04 PM.
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post #248 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-12-17, 11:01 PM
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The way I read it, the point pool bit only applies to summons....
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post #249 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 02:02 AM
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Interesting to me is some of the indicated point shifts, the smallest of which actually worries me.

A basic Tactical Marine is 13 points now. That was 14. Quite frankly, I'd hoped they'd take the opportunity to multiply all the previous edition's points by at least 2 so they could add some better granularity for troops and call 4000 the new 'normal' points total.

Instead we're continuing the race to the bottom.

The costs of that 5 man Tactical Squad has been steadily ticking down. It was 90 points in 5th, 70 in 7th, it's now going to be 5 x 13 = 65. Which is the cost of units like Dire Avengers which can't take the Tacticals in a fair fight, so THOSE will have to be dropped in price, and so on... And because there's just not that many positive integers under 13 we get things sharing the same points cost that really, really shouldn't.


On an aside, it looks like Grav took a nerf bat hit.

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post #250 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-13-17, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post
The costs of that 5 man Tactical Squad has been steadily ticking down. It was 90 points in 5th, 70 in 7th, it's now going to be 5 x 13 = 65. Which is the cost of units like Dire Avengers which can't take the Tacticals in a fair fight, so THOSE will have to be dropped in price, and so on... And because there's just not that many positive integers under 13 we get things sharing the same points cost that really, really shouldn't.
I remember reading a while back that points costs are not weighed against other armies' units, but are balanced internally within each faction. The faction's overall effectiveness is used to determine these points costs against other armies, and will be adjusted as needed during playtesting well before a new codex is released.

Imbalances happen because over time core rules can change, newer codexes introduce newer wargears, and models can be released with new rules independent of codexes, which can affect the balance of certain units.

I'm expecting this edition to be fairly balanced from the get go, however at the bottom of that article they said they were prepared to address points imbalances as time went on. So either way, I'm not concerned.


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