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post #191 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 08:42 AM
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I'm liking the new rules set.... so far.

Is it me, or does a fair bit of this seem to draw from 2nd (or at least a very old edition). I seem to remember some of this from when I started playing with mates in the classroom. Maybe its just a ghost memory.
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post #192 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
This is all making it seem to me like everything is going to die quite quickly. Add that to the super formations from earlier and a wish to sell more models I think maybe this is going to mean pts reduction so more models on the table that die faster.
The new armour pierceing setup does seem like it will be murder to a lot of infantry, but bolters and flamers are now 0 so it seems as though armour piercing weapons and multiple wound weapons are going to be fairly rare.

They've said that although anything can now wound anything else, it really will be a matter of targeting the right enemies with the right weapons if you want to get anywhere fast.


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post #193 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 09:46 AM
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I am thinking those larger formations are geared towards larger Apocalypse level games. I don't think it should be assumed that points are being slashed based off of those. Even with the rules being 'faster' adding that many more models to the table would bog a game down.

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post #194 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 11:57 AM
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They can do what they want with the points, honestly. Competent gaming circles will simply adjust the points levels of their games to keep themselves comfortable. A few editions ago, 2k or 1750 was the norm. In most games I've had under 7th it's been 1500 and the model count isn't much different.

I can't speak for every army, but I can say for certain that necron and tyranid points costs have shifted noticeably over the last three codexes they each had. The majority of units in the less points direction.


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post #195 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 12:56 PM
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I don't disagree about groups adjusting, I just don't see points being cut enough to make that large formation viable in less than 3-4k points.

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post #196 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 02:31 PM
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I don't think the points are going to change all that much. Looking at Space Marine Tac Squad, as GW seems to view these as the baseline for everything else. That and I could only find the following information quickly. RESEARCH!!

A Tactical Marines squad (w/10 men, Veteran Sergeant, flamer and missile launcher) with a dedicated Rhino (basic nothing fancy) is currently 205 points. Now compared to editions back to 4th here, (Space Marine Point Costs Over 3 Editions | Wargaming Hub) the only change is 4th to 5th edition.

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The average cost for the humble tactical squad has changed very little. What did change, however, were the options of putting them together. For comparing point costs, I used a 10-man tactical squad with veteran sergeant, a flamer, a missile launcher and a no-frills Rhino.
4th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 215 points
Tactical Marines in the 4th Edition Codex, even with the mentioned options, weren’t that much more expensive. What they lacked, however, was flexibility in the build. You could only pick a basic 5-man squad (with the veteran sergeant) or a full 10-man squad. There were no discounts on special or heavy weapons, making these 10 points extra.
5th Edition Codex Space Marines: 205 points
5 Tactical Marines with veteran sergeant in 5th Edition cost the same as in 4th Edition. Every added Space Marine, however, actually became a point more expansive! In return, one could now add single Marines on top of the basic 5, allowing oddly numbered units of 7 or 9 Space Marines. Moreover, special and heavy weapons became 5 to 10 points cheaper across the board, making some even free for units of a certain size.
6th Edition Codex Dark Angels: 205 points
6th Edition seems to have embraced flexibility above all. As seen, the cost for a basic unit like this is identical to 5th Edition. However, where 5th Edition was a “package-deal” with a veteran sergeant and “free” weapons, the 6th Edition unit is build from a bare-bones unit of 14 pt. Space Marines. However, all options (incl. the veteran sergeant) cost extra. Special and heavy weapons returned to 4th Edition costs (or more in case of the missile launcher).
So, it looks unlikely that point changes are a big thing, as GW hasn't changed them much over the years. However, I would think that what changes they implement will be minor balancing to newer factions/units, Knights, Mechanicus, Guilliman, Chaos.
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post #197 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 02:39 PM
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Thing is, let's say they cut that cost in half, that's still over 600 points for the mini of that large formation, then with everything else added.....

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post #198 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 02:42 PM
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I agree with @Roganzar it seems that units that get the biggest point change are either a newer unit (so less testing time) or their role/style is changing to fit their new codex - See Tyranid Warriors from 4th to 5th.

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Originally Posted by neilbatte
if you squint the Sigmar stuff doesn't all look like the love children from a Necron and Blood Angel orgy.
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post #199 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 03:39 PM
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/

New info about characters. Independent characters can no longer join units as the big one.
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post #200 of 646 (permalink) Old 05-09-17, 03:44 PM
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Holy shit, it's Herohammer time

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