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post #41 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-05-16, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post
Actually, it bloody well didn't.

Emphasis mine. There's a very large difference between one grenade attack / model (Assault phase) and one attack / unit (Shooting phase).
Hmm so it didn't. Never would have noticed as nobody in any gaming group I've played in has tried to use such an op tactic.
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post #42 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-05-16, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Hmm so it didn't. Never would have noticed as nobody in any gaming group I've played in has tried to use such an op tactic.
It really ISN'T overpowered for 'normal' grenades. Krak grenades are only S6, so a full Space Marine squad SHOULD manage to kill it (10 krak grenades -> WS4 vs WS1 for an avg 6.667 hits -> S6+1d6 vs. AV10 needs a 4+ to glance so average of 3.33 HP removed). This is perfectly in line with "Infantry can pose a grave threat to vehicles if they get close enough" in 'Assaulting a Vehicle'.

Note the numbers looks radically different if you try the same on a walker, which can defend itself: SM Dreadnought at WS4 only takes 5 hits that need a roll of 6 to glance (so avg of <1 HP lost). An Imperial Knight with AV13 will (rightfully) LAUGH at this Space Marine squad.

The only problem here is the cheap Haywire grenades mucking things up.

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post #43 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 01:29 AM
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Looks like the 7th Edition rulebook still uses similar language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P180 7th Edition BRB

Grenade section,


Vehicles, gun emplacements and monstrous creatures



Some grenades can be used against vehicles, gun emplacements and/or Monstrous Creatures<snip>

A model can use such a grenade as a Melee weapon, but can only ever make one attack, regardless of the number of Attacks on its profile or any bonuses.
So the ruling that a unit can only use one during Assault pretty much comes falling from the sky and it effectively nullifies the Krak grenade as a threat to vehicles/MCs. It really WASN'T much of one to Walkers/MCs in the first place, but it could be good when desperate.

Note: Krak grenades are paid for. Cost about 1pt/model, as per the Astra Militarum codex. With this ruling, there's very little reason indeed to ever take take them as even a full squad of Guardsmen with Krak grenades can't take down so much as a Taurox. Better to spend the points on a Melta Bomb or Power Fist.

They used to be similarly optional for Sisters of Battle back in C:WH, and if they actually mean this I'm now wishing they were again.

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post #44 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 05:58 AM
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In any case. 'Dem the rules now.


Last edited by Angel of Blood; 05-06-16 at 06:00 AM.
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post #45 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 06:50 AM
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No 'drop pod scattering' for Monoliths/skimmers....Ah well, it was a fool's hope anyway.
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post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 07:28 AM
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No 'drop pod scattering' for Monoliths/skimmers....Ah well, it was a fool's hope anyway.
Never even knew that was an issue. So many of these rules are stuff I never knew were issues. Like who actually tried to field a whole army of buildings lol.
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post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 08:16 AM
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If I had an entire army of buildings, I may well have been that guy.
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post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
In any case. 'Dem the rules now.
Not necessarily, it's still only the draft. I hope for the sake of my tankbustas that they clarify that meltabombs are demolition charges designed to take down vehicles and building and my Boyz still have a cats chance in hell of actually staying on the battlefield.

I always played that rule, and clarified it many times in many games and at several tournaments too. It seemed fair to me that a specialised unit, like tankbustas would exchange their 2 base attacks, 3 on the charge, for a single attack with a melta bomb, reflecting the time and care taken to affix their charges to their target. Running squads of 5 made them a viable unit, a rare commodity for orks.
If GW insist on pushing this through, then it will be a wholly unfair nerf to an already underpowered codex. However, judging by the tone of comments on the grenades page, and the overwhelming criticism for the ruling, pointing out the rules themselves as evidence for the incorrect interpretation, I am hopeful that the ruling will not make the final draft.

Last edited by R_Squared; 05-06-16 at 12:24 PM.
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post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 09:05 AM
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Well for me the grenade thing is a double edged sword, on the one hand my vehicles are safe from haywire/melta bomb spam, on the other hand I cant spam melta bombs to take out my opponents vehicles.
One thing H would like cleared up is whether units in my army that are joined by lone independant charactes that are not from the same codex but are still battle brothers can deploy in their transports or not. I would ask my self, but dont have a fb account and was wondering whether someone could ask on my behalf.

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We don't need to use any military force to defeat the imperium, we'll just send GW legal at them. As soon as they see the first sign of a thunderhawk gunship, their IP infringement addled brains will go into meltdown - they'll smash everything out of the sky with cease and desist letters.
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post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-06-16, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu_shan82 View Post
Well for me the grenade thing is a double edged sword, on the one hand my vehicles are safe from haywire/melta bomb spam, on the other hand I cant spam melta bombs to take out my opponents vehicles.
One thing H would like cleared up is whether units in my army that are joined by lone independant charactes that are not from the same codex but are still battle brothers can deploy in their transports or not. I would ask my self, but dont have a fb account and was wondering whether someone could ask on my behalf.
It's already been asked (Not by me though)

'Can an independent character that has joined a battle brother unit embark in a transport with them in deployment'

I'm awaiting the same clarification.
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