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post #251 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Achaylus72 View Post
I don't play the game, I just collect, but it is still legit as Chaos Space Marines are still Space Marine and are able to gain access to Space Marine Armoury.
Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?
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post #252 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravion View Post
Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?
Cmon he just doesn't know the fluff aswell as you do.
Logically speaking though, there is no reason why CSM don't have access to a most loyalist stuff. (Forge world can be conquered, STCs can be stollen) This has been discussed over and over again on so many boards. Not all csm are blood crazed zerkers or mutants some are relatively new converts like Astral Claws. No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.
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post #253 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 02:39 PM
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No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.
Oooh ok. I wasn't sure what he was getting at.


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post #254 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 03:05 PM
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Seems to me, unless you play raven guard there's nothing to bitch about for space Marines. Well and your wallet but that's nothing new for the GW hobbyist.
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post #255 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormxlr View Post
Cmon he just doesn't know the fluff aswell as you do.
Logically speaking though, there is no reason why CSM don't have access to a most loyalist stuff. (Forge world can be conquered, STCs can be stollen) This has been discussed over and over again on so many boards. Not all csm are blood crazed zerkers or mutants some are relatively new converts like Astral Claws. No reason why they shouldn't have any of the SM units or Formations.
This.
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post #256 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 04:11 PM
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Fluff vs game rules arguement is pointless unless you discussing it face to face with your opponent. If they say sure, cool gratz, be prepared if they say no though.

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post #257 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 04:31 PM
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And why bitch about Raven Guard? I'm happy with the new codex and have always run Raven Guard as my chapter. And I don't think the Forge Worlds and such hold their STC's. So most of the "more recent" Imperial tech upgrades would really need you to crack the Mechanicus Archives on Mars, I think. where the original STCs might be. At least if I was the Mecanicus, I wouldn't let anyone but the Mars Forge keep orignials.

As for new converts such as Astral Claws, or even just a fallen chapter, sure at the time of the fall they'd be modern equipped, but over even a few short decades, without Demon Forge support, their non Heresy equipment would break down and fail due to lack of parts.
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post #258 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 06:54 PM
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Because one turn of Shrouded (you can't even pick which turn, it has to be first) and +1 to the roll to see if Night Fight happens is shit compared to army-wide Hit and Run/Skilled Rider/Str5 Hammer of Wrath/re-roll Run, or +1 Feel No Pain on the whole army and IWND on all vehicles, or two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with shooting and two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit in melee with your core infantry units getting flat re-rolls, or all your Devastators getting Tank Hunters and your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with Bolt weapons including Special Ammo.

For a free benefit, Shrouded on turn 1 is a solid benefit especially if it comes with Night Fight, but given that you give up other Chapter Tactics to use it, I don't think it's good at all.

Also Shrike is one of the worse Special Characters. Not the worst, sure, but nothing particularly special in my view.

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post #259 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 07:06 PM
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What is the new 'super unit' that's out with this edition of Space Marines?
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post #260 of 278 (permalink) Old 06-15-15, 08:07 PM
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Most deathstar-able unit is still Grav Centurions, but there's competition. If you mean a 'super-unit' like one particular model, they don't have one - a lot of their vehicle squadrons/formations are designed for killing larger things (the Land Raider formation makes them all pseudo-Superheavies and the max size Predator Squadron gets Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter), plus the obvious presence of Grav for dealing with Gargantuans.

Space Marines is a fucking amazing book for internal balance.

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