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post #151 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-25-15, 05:24 PM
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You get to talk about the game for one thing if its close There's no angry, silent packing away from one side whilst the opponent desperately apologises for his army...

'Honestly, I had no idea it would be that good'
Said I as my chaos storm eagle singlehandedly annihilated an entire nid army - I'd taken it against marines before and all it did was fly round, look cool and die...
I felt awful
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post #152 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-25-15, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gret79 View Post
You get to talk about the game for one thing if its close There's no angry, silent packing away from one side whilst the opponent desperately apologises for his army...

'Honestly, I had no idea it would be that good'
Said I as my chaos storm eagle singlehandedly annihilated an entire nid army - I'd taken it against marines before and all it did was fly round, look cool and die...
I felt awful
Reminds me of two battles with my genestealer army.

Vs dark eldar I was wiped. I could not even get within charging distance.
Same tournament,
Vs Necrons I hit him so hard by turn 3 he was wiped off the board. I won the melee he failed his ld roll and the necrons left.

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post #153 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-25-15, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
Challenge refused.

Combo neutered.
Combo BREAKER! ��

Only Jain Zars mask reduces init, not the rest of the banshees so bar a Karandras/Jain Zar tag team, this ain't happening.
But on that one day when the stars align...
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post #154 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-25-15, 09:45 PM
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But on that one day when the stars align...
1. Bring Jain Zar and Karandras
2. Fight Chaos Space Marines or Khorne Daemonkin
3. Charge a character that won't kill you as/before you swing (Karandras still has no Grenades, right?)
4. Challenge
5. ...
6. Massive profit

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post #155 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 12:06 AM
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Karandras got grenades now.
I swear, the eldar dex feels like wishlisting.

Jain Zar - if you are within 6", you lose 5 ws and init.
You don't roll for disarm any more, you just lose your best weapon to her.
Asurmen is almost the same - he's just swapped his defend power for a 3++ in a challenge, Fuegan lost fast shot but gets to re-roll either his shot, the pen or wound. Still hulks up too and Renewer is also still about on warlocks so that combo still works.Baharroth stayed the same but is by far the cheapest lord and Maugan-Ra gets to fire eight shots at 36" range a turn.
He got shrieker ammo back too.
The Phoenix's are all better Imo. Probably not worth the points still, but they are more useful now.
Other changes are
The Avatar lost his exarch powers but got st8 and gives a fearless, furious charge and rage bubble. Shining spears got permanent ap2.
Karandras can now enter play on turn two, from any board edge, with stealthed and shrouded scorpions. I like that one. He also got mandiblasters that hurt on a 2+ and ignore armour...
Ghosthelms still work the same, farseers get to re-roll as many dice as they want to for casting or dtw once per psychic phase.
Eldritch storm can be 4 warp charge and use the apocalyptic blast...
At ap 3 with fleshbane and haywire
And a question - Jain Zars 6" nerf bubble. If you put her in a serpent does that make the bubble go from the tank?
Sort've a nerf serpent?
And one last one I missed - eldar missile launchers now get starhawk missiles which are st7, ap4 with skyfire.

Last edited by Gret79; 04-26-15 at 01:39 AM.
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post #156 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 08:49 AM
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yeah i agree.

if all these things had been leaked early on, exactly like written here, ppl would have called the posting guy a wishlisting troll.

but alas no
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post #157 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 10:55 AM
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Well my breakdown of what has happened is...

New detachment is ok but I don't know if it is great. While previously you used a CAD and that allowed bikers to have objective secured. This new one just allows you to run a guaranteed distance. The new bonus is nice with the idea of maybe having selective terrain on your battlefield such as high rocks or something. Move out your 6" then shoot then run back behind solid cover. Or could be used to get your units around the battlefield a lot quicker. Of course the other bonus is that you could if you want max out on a lot of Heavy, Fast, Elites or whatever if you want without having to take must of a HQ tax.

Eldrad is a bit of a beast now with mastery 4 and access to the normal runes of fate or telepathy (as well as 2 others) he can get a really good chance on the spells that will give him what he wants. In addition whenever he successfully casts a spell he has a 1/3 chance to regain a warp charge. And like all farseers can choose to reroll any of the dice (so you might roll 5 dice and only get 2 successes so could choose to just reroll 2-3 of the fails) used to cast a single spell or deny in each psychic phase. Also if made leader of a seer council then passing casting checks on a 3+ rather than 4+. This is a large bonus when the new Eldritch Storm can be cast on 4 warp charge for an apoc blast, fleshbane, haywire, pinning, ap3 attack! And on top of all this wonderful stuff he can give d3 of your units scout with his warlord trait.

Looks like most phoenix lords are roughly the same as before from what I can gather though with the new aspect powers some seem to be nicely buffed. For example Feugan (and other fire dragons) will be using melta weapons that as AP1 give +2 to vehicle damage table... but no, that's not all... All Fire Dragons get +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables, so +3 (4 if open topped). That is a wrecking ball if you can get them close enough to any vehicle. Think how many hull points you can take off a Knight or Storma by getting in 6" and using your 5 guys to S8 Melta, so rolling 2D6 for pen and then +3 on dmg, so each caused a min of 1 Hull Point and on a 4+ for your damage table roll will take an additional D3.

The new Warlock Conclave seems like a nice idea to stop you having loads of LV1 Psykers. The basic of the new rule is when they are together they have a brotherhood type of rule similar to horrors, but as the number of them increases the units Mastery Level also goes up in small amounts.

Another thing to add is that Eldar do not get access to Daemonology Malefic, but can use Sanctic. So no Eldar summoning hordes of Daemons.

Guardians have kinda remained the same, but with the formations it has an interesting twist. The Battlehost gains some free heavy weapons, Stormhost get a couple of flamers and power weapons for free. Both get some preferred enemy for the Walkers, Heavy Weapons and Vipers if they shoot targets near the guardians. Also they can buy a Warlock for themselves out of the unit selection, so no more having to borrow one from a HQ choice.
Wind Riders as well publicised have a couple of extra guns on each unit. So no longer would you have to stick with the Catapults, you can now get Cannons for all or Scatters.

Scorpions have also had a boost I think. If they infiltrate then they also gain shrouded (what they have stealth already) until the unit decides to shoot (including overwatch). This means they are a fair bit less squishy as they have a 4+ cover save min. Of course any other cover they could get would be at +3. So leave them near walls and stuff and you could be looking at a melee unit that gets 2+ cover until combat then a 3+ armour save once in.

As put above Fire Dragons are now really really good Vehicle and Knight killers due to that additional +1 to Vehicle Damage Table.

Wraithguard are still nice, and I know there was a huge uproar about the "They have D weapons now!!!" but in most cases when they were already S10 AP2. So yeah if used to kill multi wound or heavier vehicles then yeah it will make a difference. Though it isn't as if they have split fire to shoot out several tanks in 1 turn. The major difference is that the scythes are also D weapons, but they have a -1 to the D table so not able to get those precious 6s to annihilate everyone. But also class as S4 for the purpose of instant death.

Wraithblades are a tiny bit cheaper and gained RAGE! what is a nice bonus.

Wave Serpents are massively kicked down from where they were. Holofields now just give a small invuln save rather than adding to the cover save. So no more 3+ jinky things with their shield giving them 2+ to reduce. In addition to that the shield when fired is GONE for the rest of the game. So no more going out and shooting then finding a hidey spot and doing that again and again each turn.

Hemlocks are now Mastery Level 2 and are no longer restricted to having to choose a certain power. So that could be nice to take Conceal for shrouded as a primus, or going telepathy and maybe shrieking people down.

Falcons are now bought in a unit of up to 3 now, what does mean you don't have to burn so many Heavy choices if you are going for CAD. But as a bonus for taking 3 they can Deepstrike and the first does not scatter, and the other 2 can land in 4" of the first and also not scatter. This could be used to great effect to land down a squad of 3 of them loaded with Fire Dragons to burn down any of the big tanks or fortifications that might cause a prob. It is just a shame that they are still only capacity of 6 so you couldn't drop in Wrathguards (unless I am overlooking a weird rule that would allow half the squad to be in 1 transport and the other half in another as long as the 2 stay in coherency).

Fire Prisms get the same treatment of being buyable in 3s Though the linked fire thing is now limited to the squadron, so no longer could you randomly select just any of them to focus through if you wanted.

WraithKnight has shot up in points now. But as said in Gargantuan so a few nice bonus rules for that such as 12" Movement, Stomp, Fearless, Feel No Pain, Snipers and Poison only wound on 6s and of course most important is that instant death now just does D3 wounds rather than killing him instantly. Also with the heavy d cannons being d weapons it does give a real alternative to the suncannon, or if you go melee the sword is also a D weapon striking at I5, so could take out a lot of enemies before they can strike. What miffed me about that is that the Blood Thirster becomes I1 if he has his D weapon, what given this to the Eldar Knight I would have been happier if the Bloodthirster would have been reduced to I3 (so 1/3 of natural) when using D weapon, especially as they cost almost the same and the knight gets so much more for the points.

The Aspect Host is a really strong formation that gives you a bit more reason to take a few more Aspects as they gain either +1 to WS or BS, and can also reroll some LD checks if wanted. This is nice for Fire dragons again as this gives you BS5 Meltas and as said +3 to the Vehicle Damage Table.

Crimson Death (3 Crimson Hunters), gain a passive 4+ cover save, but can also if they jink choose to reroll if they fail. Pref enemy for Flyers and FMC means they have a good air domination, though do you really want 3.

So overall I think the book is a solid one. I think the ruination of the Wave Serpents will piss a load of people off as they now dismantle a few of the mass number they had before. But that loss will be more than compensated for with the rise of the aspects again and time will tell how good the D weapons prove to be.
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post #158 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 11:49 AM
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Starhawk missiles.

I have 3 support weapons with ml, 2 serpents and two wraithlords.
These all just got skyfire.
That means those free heavy weapons on guardian squads in the guardian warhost are 90pts of free skyfire.

Last edited by Gret79; 04-26-15 at 12:01 PM.
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post #159 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 12:19 PM
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New detachment is ok but I don't know if it is great. While previously you used a CAD and that allowed bikers to have objective secured.
if you run the wraith formation its awfully nasty.

they get battle focus, and then sure 6" and then kill everything flamer... ughh

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Originally Posted by mayegelt View Post
All Fire Dragons get +1 to Vehicle Damage Tables, so +3 (4 if open topped). That is a wrecking ball if you can get them close enough to any vehicle. Think how many hull points you can take off a Knight or Storma by getting in 6" and using your 5 guys to S8 Melta, so rolling 2D6 for pen and then +3 on dmg, so each caused a min of 1 Hull Point and on a 4+ for your damage table roll will take an additional D3.

but if you use Wraithguards, you just auto kill it, more or less. with the S: D crap

Last edited by Tawa; 04-26-15 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Multi-Quotes
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post #160 of 170 (permalink) Old 04-26-15, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by otasolgryn View Post
if you run the wraith formation its awfully nasty.

they get battle focus, and then sure 6" and then kill everything flamer... ughh




but if you use Wraithguards, you just auto kill it, more or less. with the S: D crap
The Iyanden codex already meant you could battle focus and run 6" with a kill everything flamer -5 x st4, ap2 with instant death/autopen on 6's was already nasty.
Wraithguard don't fit in falcons, so the only ways they can get to you are either a wave serpent in which case you can try to take it out before it gets to you and there can be no more than 5 of them, or they footslog and they aren't a threat for a couple of turns.
Big squads of them are 300pts+ so bar a full wraith list you won't see that many of them.
Apart from the wraithknight changes, the rest of the wraithstuff isn't that different.
My ten wraithguard have always killed whatever they shot at, including greater demons, primarchs and spartans
Heldrakes, Baal preds, plasma - anything ap3 and high enough strength will still kill wrathguard. If they get close, charge them with a throwaway squad, then charge with a dreadnought or a character. That ties them up for the rest of the game. Fearless means they can't leave cc once they're in it.
Wraithblades with swords lose to anything like monstrous creatures and dreads and I'd charge the axes with a blob squad - if they get charged, its one attack each for them which should tie them up indefinitely.
Of course, if you fight someone using dark eldar allies with a webway portal then that's different. But even then, its a 400+ point unit being used to kill one thing. Unless you have a super heavy worth more, that unit will never make its points back.

The main thing is try fighting them and make sure you know the eldar rules. Eldar win through special rules people either forget or don't know about. Its why non eldar players tend to hate them.
Things like 'warp spiders can teleport after you declare you're going to shoot them' will waste important shooting. Its not so bad if you know about it, but when you decide to flamer them rather than another unit because you didn't know or forgot, its either suck it up and grind your teeth or start an argument about how 'you wouldn't have done it if you'd known'
It won't be a fun game after that.
I compromise - I tell my opponents about what beardy eldar units do before the game rather than saying mid-game 'excuse me, just to let you know, if you shoot those spiders, I'll just teleport away so you'd be better to shoot this other unit over here' because I would still like to win, rather than playing both sides
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