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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 06:30 PM
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Whilst there are a couple of thingy's I wanted from CH, I'm not defending him. The fact that he has continued with producing the stuff he has after multiple smacks strikes me as pants-on-head at best, but the whole personal assets thing got on my tits

Anyways.....


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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 07:17 PM
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Literally everybody told him this would happen. Myself included. And he continued to be a huge dick about it and insist that he'd be able to do this somehow. Like, if I started selling Mickey Mouse ears, and call them Mickey Mouse ears, and say Disney isn't going to sue me because they're slightly different than the Mickey Mouse ears that Disney makes, I deserve the painful legal sodomy that's going to be inflicted on me by Disney's legal team. Similarly, if everyone tells you "No, don't stick your dick in the live lamp light socket!" and you do it anyway, that's on you. These things all apply to Chapterhouse.

I'm sorry to hear he's going to lose his house and livelihood, but like... you can't just steal from a major company (or any company) and expect there to not be serious consequences. And yes, he definitely did steal from Games Workshop-- he ripped off their IP explicitly and wholesale, with intent to produce copywritten material without paying any royalty on it. I'm not surprised this is happening, either. This is someone who thinks that paying damages to Games Workshop, on top of having to stop selling more than half their product range, is having a case ruled in their favor.

I'm a far cry from a GW fanboy. That being said, Chapterhouse's arrogance always put me off. As a store owner myself, I appreciate the zeal with which Games Workshop protects their IP-- ensuring the GW range maintains its individuality and its value protects MY livelihood at this point.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 08:36 PM
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Falcon party's should sue gw. Dont they own the word miniatures?

Gw is being a spoiled brat. Ch has every right to make mods for our toys. We use mods in so many things, skyrim, wot, wow, if it is illegal for ch to make mods the it should be illegal for us to mod our toys. If we cant mod our toys, the they should come assembled and pre-painted, this way the artist who created it wont have his/her feelings hurt.

Yup sums it up. Btw gw's excuse for not allowing non-gw mods is EXACTLY that.

Cheers. My 2

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 08:42 PM
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Very wrong, if GW claims ownership of a copyright to their IP, then it is their right to protect that IP, much the same Marvel would sue you for publishing and selling alternative stories of Spiderman or the X men. It has to do with CH PROFITING from the sale of this copyright infringement, not the generation or production of it. I can make alternative Spiderman stories and drawings all I want, but I can NOT profit from the likeness of Spiderman and/or his themes. That is how copyrights work, and helps protect professional artists such as myself. CH has every right to create mods, but they have absolutely no right to profit from them.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjar667 View Post
Very wrong, if GW claims ownership of a copyright to their IP, then it is their right to protect that IP, much the same Marvel would sue you for publishing and selling alternative stories of Spiderman or the X men. It has to do with CH PROFITING from the sale of this copyright infringement, not the generation or production of it. I can make alternative Spiderman stories and drawings all I want, but I can NOT profit from the likeness of Spiderman and/or his themes. That is how copyrights work, and helps protect professional artists such as myself. CH has every right to create mods, but they have absolutely no right to profit from them.
Only so long as the mods specifically reference Spiderman.

Perhaps this might clear things up, since I'm among those very recently acquainted with this whole mess: Just how much of Chapterhouse's stock was deliberately named after, designed based on, and meant for 40k? After all, the 40k universe is so broad that any number of designs for the same weapon, bolter, lasgun or otherwise, could all apply. Same with the infamous Mycetic Spore: What if it were renamed to "Alien Invasion Capsule"?

If CH was using GW terms, symbols, etc. then they're clearly in the wrong. But if GW is going after them because they were making guns, clothing, and equipment for miniatures that just so happened to be the same scale and proportions, how could GW possibly be in the right?


Now as far as my own observations are concerned: Their website may be shot, but their facebook page is not, and it's hit and miss. On one hand, the names of their creations are predominantly generic. On the other, they flat out reference Space Marine Terminators and White Scars. They also use the White Scars symbol, and even have an Aquila on a belly plate. Going further back shows a kickstarter 'entirely predicated' on 'compatibility' with "Necrons, Tau, and Eldar," without even the pretense of wide-application by referencing other tabletop games, settings, etc.

I think this explains everything in a nutshell, including the sweeping legal victories CH saw prior: Their tendency to harp on 40k applications, and occasionally use directly ripped symbols, damns them. But not all of the time. And yet it's like watching someone with multiple personalities: Can't make up their minds.

It's kind of ironic, in a way. In both cases, both companies have a lot going for them, and then some series of decisions from high up screws over everybody beneath them, from the workers to the players. Chapterhouse already garnered attention having made these (apparently quality?) ripoffs in the first place, so why couldn't they just let it die and then ride that new reputation into more varied and worthy pursuits? Similarly, GW finally found a target justifying its rampaging IP protection policies, but is liable to win in a way that utterly destroys CH rather than grant it room to reform (admittedly debatable due to the length of time).

And you know what they say about "Those who live by the sword..."


"There are old heretics and bold heretics, but there are no old, bold heretics. How do I know? Because I make sure of it myself."

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjar667 View Post
Very wrong, if GW claims ownership of a copyright to their IP, then it is their right to protect that IP, much the same Marvel would sue you for publishing and selling alternative stories of Spiderman or the X men. It has to do with CH PROFITING from the sale of this copyright infringement, not the generation or production of it. I can make alternative Spiderman stories and drawings all I want, but I can NOT profit from the likeness of Spiderman and/or his themes. That is how copyrights work, and helps protect professional artists such as myself. CH has every right to create mods, but they have absolutely no right to profit from them.
Space marine is not owned by gw, that's why they are changing the name. Orks are not owned by gw. Otherwise gw should sue mantic games.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 09:19 PM
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Space marine is not owned by gw, that's why they are changing the name. Orks are not owned by gw. Otherwise gw should sue mantic games.
That is neither here nor there in this dispute.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 09:38 PM
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But it was put forth by GW that the shoulder pads that CH was selling was an infringement on GW's IP ... which GW had absolutely no right to claim as they tried to get a copyright on it and our patent office said ... no, THREE times. GW laid many false claims when they went after CH, and actually ended up losing more than they gained. I can make a kit that is compatible with "Power Armour" and sell it as such.

GW wanted to say that they held the CR to things that they in fact did not. They actually went through their archives and had to ask artists, whose work they have been using for years, to sign a document giving GW all the rights to the artwork .... after the trial started. Some did, some did not.

Claiming ownership and actually having ownership of some IP are two different things ... GW found this out at trial.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawa View Post
Whilst there are a couple of thingy's I wanted from CH, I'm not defending him. The fact that he has continued with producing the stuff he has after multiple smacks strikes me as pants-on-head at best, but the whole personal assets thing got on my tits

Anyways.....
Indeed,
if he had taken the smacks as wake up calls and had changed direction (like countless others have) and moved away from taking the piss he'd have been fine now,
he didn't and now he's paying the price,
in the words of Led Zeppelin

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-18-14, 11:22 PM
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@Einherjar667 , as it happens a number of our forum mates recalled the specifics better than I did. I read a lot of the court proceedings as well but they didn't stick in my memory.

@OIIIIIIO , the air filter case perfect embodies my concern about this case. It stifles competition and diversity in the market place.

On further reflection, it seems like Chapterhouse's main failure has been to label their products too specifically, e.g. the product "is a Space Wolf" instead of "is compatible with Space Wolves."

If I recall correctly, part of the issue for GW is that they can't copyright an idea, they can copyright a work but not an abstract concept. And a number of their concepts are so broad on paper as to be almost indefensible.

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Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.

Last edited by Kreuger; 10-18-14 at 11:26 PM.
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