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post #81 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 01:16 PM
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On of the cool things about 40k is that you can pretty much do as you please. It can be a easy or as convoluted as you want.

The choice is yours.
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post #82 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
So are you meant to use the wargear in the errata or from your codex?
I paid 20 for this book and because of this I get cheaper wargear for my flier. I wonder if they will FAQ the BA and GK codex to lower the points costs to what's in the errata.
There are actual rules for wargear in the Compendium and it looks to be about the same honestly (Grey Knights and Blood Angels still have to take their respective missile options, and Grey Knights still get Fortitude, ect).

As for points cost for BA the only things that got cheaper where the locator beacon (by 5 points) and the Extra Armour (by 10 points). Grey Knights follow suit on the wargear, but the codex specific stuff (Truesilver Hull, Psybolts, ect) still costs whatever they cost in the codex.

Honestly I'm not seeing much here that really says "you NEED this book", more "if you want it, it's here, and there are a couple small perks for having it that rarely matter".
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post #83 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 01:36 PM
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No Eldar...

*sticks to his guns and refuses to play any more 40k till Eldar get their plastic flyer*
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post #84 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bubblematrix View Post
No Eldar...

*sticks to his guns and refuses to play any more 40k till Eldar get their plastic flyer*
Points towards Forge World...

FW has 3 fliers at the 68-69, you can compare it to Buying a Stormraven for 50 and then buying this errata for 20, will cost you 70.

So if you buy a FW flier and download the errata and IA book with the rules you pay as much as the SM guys and get a flier, you probably wont be allowed to use anyway because everyone knows IA is "op". If you buy more than one you lose 20 with each purchase (unless you buy from that chinese dude who casts FW for cheap and dont mind resin that will give you lung cancer...).


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post #85 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 06:02 PM
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When you consider that it makes a lot of sense that it's direct only because it's not a mass appeal item.
I think there's a lot of that in 40K though so I don't see why having a couple copies would be bonkers. Not to mention it has C:SM stuff in it... seems logical to have 20 copies on the shelf at all times right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCowCrazy View Post
Points towards Forge World...
So if you buy a FW flier and download the errata and IA book with the rules you pay as much as the SM guys and get a flier, you probably wont be allowed to use anyway because everyone knows IA is "op".
Probably one reason I never did grab a Storm Eagle. Though I think also having to pay nearly $200, getting a book and a single model, and unlikely to buy many more had something to do with it :D. Though I think "op" is pretty relative. With this book the DA flyer is priced out of existence with the Talon sitting at 75 points less (oh, but with only 2 HP) and for a couple more you almost get a flying Landraider. Couldn't imagine buying the two pack and ever actually using them...would look nice on a shelf though.

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post #86 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 09:52 PM
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Not that the Nephilim isn't about 10-20pts over cost, but if you do a straight comparison of the Base Talon and the Base Neph (with Avenger to compare to the assualt cannon) there are some clear differences, for that 70pt difference you are getting:

+1HP, +1 Main weapon attack (at double range), +2 missile shots, and a pretty decent anti-flyer special rule, and only losing ceramite armor. At optimum range the Talon will get 4x S6 shots and 3 S5 shots at =< 24". The Nephilim will put out 7x S6 shots and 3 S5 shots at =<36" range. Against AV 11 for the Main gun that is roughly 2 HP with 70% chance of a Pen for the Neph and 1 HP with a 60% chance of a pen for the Talon. With a slightly above average roll on the Heavy Bolters you will get 1 more HP on each. So the Neph can pretty reliably strip 2-3 HP from AV 11 at a further range than the Talon. (Against AV12 the Neph and the talon will only strip 1 but the talon will be a pen due to rending, which is where the Neph should take the Las Cannons). This is all barring any Jink saves, but there are negative to taking those.

In a straight up Dogfight the Neph will down a Talon before the Talon can shoot back, since it doesn't even need the Heavy Bolters to strip the HP.

Now you can make the Talon better for a cost, but then the point differnce is only 35-40pts, and the Neph can still unleash more fire than the Talon and has the extra HP and the Unrelenting Hunter is a nice Special Rule vs any vehicle.

Like I said, I think the Neph is still overpriced, but not really so much in comparison to the Talon. Where the price difference really shows is against the Heavier Flyers like the Storm Raven which has as much firepower, heavier armor, and is a transport.

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post #87 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 10:22 PM
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Like I said, I think the Neph is still overpriced, but not really so much in comparison to the Talon. Where the price difference really shows is against the Heavier Flyers like the Storm Raven which has as much firepower, heavier armor, and is a transport.
Yeah, didn't notice the Talon only had 2 HP at first. The gap between it and the Raven is less by default but the disadvantage seems oddly larger. If the missiles were at least Str 8 I could maybe understand but at 6 you're mostly gambling for glances on a slightly more expensive target that can penetrate your armor as if it were glued on.

I guess you can make up the points elsewhere or with luck really but on paper it does look a bit odd.
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post #88 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 10:45 PM
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I agree the Neph should have better missiles. If it's missiles were on-par with the Storm Raven's (which they should be) then it's role as an anti-AV would be secured and the 180pt price tag would make sense. 1 TL S9 shot (or 5 S6 shots), 3 TL S5 shots, and 2 S8 shots in one turn would stand a good chance at wrecking most vehicles in one round of shooting. It would still reliably strip 2-3 HP with 2 Pens a turn on AV =<11, but would also now have a good chance at 2 Pen on AV 12 a turn.

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post #89 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-21-13, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Karyudo-DS View Post
I think there's a lot of that in 40K though so I don't see why having a couple copies would be bonkers. Not to mention it has C:SM stuff in it... seems logical to have 20 copies on the shelf at all times right there.
Do you have any idea on the expense involved in having 20 copies "just there" at all times, in all shops, in all countries?

There are about 350+ shops worldwide.

Lets say the margin on GW products is about 60% so that means it costs GW 12 quid to have the book in the shop that works out 84,000 pounds of stock that doesn't move. Depending on demand you'd probably need that much again to be in transit and that much again to be in production.

So to keep 20 copies on the shelf GW needs to have 250,000 quid laying "dead"

When you do the maths the reasoning behind order only becomes apparent, particularly for items that are uncertain as to their market acceptance.
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post #90 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-22-13, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Magpie_Oz View Post
Do you have any idea on the expense involved in having 20 copies "just there" at all times, in all shops, in all countries?
Being sarcastic, will use different font next time, sorry.
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