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post #461 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 01:27 PM
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DAKKA DAKKKA WAAAAAGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry bout that just excited and pumped with energy drinks with my mates over constantly refreshing the gw homepage until we can get a proper look at the stuff

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post #462 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTabby View Post
Let's have a look at which armies don't have fliers, or creatures that can fly.

If you don't use FW stuff, that's Sisters (interim codex), Eldar (old codex) and Tau (old codex). If I'm missing something really obvious please let me know.
Thought there was mention of the skimmers being FAQd to fly or something. I mean it seems stupid Eldar would lack fliers when a flying dive-bomb is the Apoc Falcon formation special rule. I would guess Tau would get the same deal if there were the case. Of course it looks like you can just bring in allied fliers anyway or buy a quad gun.

I don't think jump troops need flying high specifically, but it would make sense if the could attack things in the air at least. If nothing else at least on the way down.
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post #463 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTabby View Post
We haven't seen the rulebook yet. We're only getting one side of the flier story, the bits that make them sound awesome. For all we know, anything classed as Heavy Support might have access to this Skyfire rule.

The old 'flying high' rules made jump packs and wings an unstoppable pain in the ass. I sincerely doubt they'd put something back in like that. The appearance at present is that 6s to hit only apply at speed or at higher level flying, which also screws your own effectiveness.

Let's see the whole picture before we decry it as broken?
I might certainly be overreacting, but seeing how nids got screwed over first by the "Fuck your old models, we're nerfing them to the ground, but look at these new and expensive ones! They're totally a no-brainer and you must buy seven!" policy, and what then happened with the SoB to the Canoness and St. Celestine, I am honestly and sincerely expecting them to make flyers as broken and OP as humanly possible just because they would sell more that way.

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Originally Posted by Karyudo-DS View Post
Thought there was mention of the skimmers being FAQd to fly or something. I mean it seems stupid Eldar would lack fliers when a flying dive-bomb is the Apoc Falcon formation special rule. I would guess Tau would get the same deal if there were the case. Of course it looks like you can just bring in allied fliers anyway or buy a quad gun.
Allies and fortifications might help compensate, at least they seem to have had the decency to take this into account when introducing rules that blatantly benefit the usual armies and methodically screw the underdogs.

But I do hope skimmers won't be FAQd to fly, I don't want to go back to the days when Eldar mech spam lists with holofields were pretty much unkillable. Albeit I admit this might again be my paranoia speaking since we don't really know how hull points are supposed to work.
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post #464 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTabby View Post
If you don't use FW stuff, that's Sisters (interim codex), Eldar (old codex) and Tau (old codex). If I'm missing something really obvious please let me know.
Tau and Eldar have things on the way, no idea about sob however

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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post #465 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 02:05 PM
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Tau and Eldar have things on the way, no idea about sob however
Whats on the way for the eldar? That's the first time I've heard anything
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post #466 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 02:17 PM
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Allies and fortifications might help compensate, at least they seem to have had the decency to take this into account when introducing rules that blatantly benefit the usual armies and methodically screw the underdogs.

But I do hope skimmers won't be FAQd to fly, I don't want to go back to the days when Eldar mech spam lists with holofields were pretty much unkillable. Albeit I admit this might again be my paranoia speaking since we don't really know how hull points are supposed to work.
On one hand allies seems like a way got get people to buy more just because but at the same time you can't really cry that your codex sucks donkey when you can argument it. I can't fight terminators with banshees anymore (at least not as well as scopions) but I can send terminators with my Eldar as troops :D

Hopefully the cheese won't go sky high but we'll see. Far as skimmers go, things have already changed, an Eldar mech lust might get chewn to pieces by AA, storm ravens, storm talons, orks or necron fliers, I mean they would be far from alone, even throw in Tau! So I don't think it would be an issue... Not anymore than all jetbike armies. Falcons and Serpents have to touch down to drop troops anyway so they can't stay up usefully.

Last edited by Karyudo-DS; 06-22-12 at 02:22 PM.
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post #467 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gret79 View Post
Whats on the way for the eldar? That's the first time I've heard anything
A flying thingummy, with guns

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
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post #468 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Karyudo-DS View Post
On one hand allies seems like a way got get people to buy more just because but at the same time you can't really cry that your codex sucks donkey when you can argument it. I can't fight terminators with banshees anymore (at least not as well as scopions) but I can send terminators with my Eldar as troops :D
Reason for which I remain that allies are awesome (albeit their rumoured "out of FOC" shenanigans sound pretty dumb), though it's not really because this allows me to field a codex GW gives not a single damn about and not autolose, it's mostly because it helps make boring armies more colourful, and add variety in general.

And I love variety, which is why it makes me a bit sad that the actual reason for allies might be a cheap way to "update" old armies. I hope this doesn't mean the SoB update is pushed from late 2078 to early 3512.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyarudo-DS
Hopefully the cheese won't go sky high but we'll see. Far as skimmers go, things have already changed, an Eldar mech lust might get chewn to pieces by AA, storm ravens, storm talons, orks or necron fliers, I mean they would be far from alone, even throw in Tau! So I don't think it would be an issue... Not anymore than all jetbike armies. Falcons and Serpents have to touch down to drop troops anyway so they can't stay up usefully.
What, there's Eldar players that still field troops in transports? And expect to unload them?

I thought everyone just went "Eldrad + the bare absolute minimum of the crappiest troop choices and then just mech spam".

There's one thing that I've been wondering about lately... If there's dice with super special awesome pre-determined sides for AP 1, AP 2 and AP 3 weapons, does that mean there's no more difference between glancing and penetrating hits? I'm asking because if there still is, then a bare D6 roll on a table is much, much faster and reliable than using the super special awesome hyper expensive GW special die and then having to consult the table anyways because you can't just go "4-2". Also, what if dice came with pre-built modifiers to the table? Let's assume AP 1 Munitorum dice already have 2 sides to account for the extra chance of exploding but you score a glancing hit, how do you tell which exploding result scales down to wrecked and which to immobilized or however it is the new damage scales?

Granted, it's a fix as ludicrously easy as to put a small number on a corner of the die face, but it made me wonder if there might be a tiny little chance that I won't have to pick anti-vehicle weapons at all costs on every troop that can take them no matter the other choices or lose automatically.
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post #469 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 03:03 PM
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I doubt all skimmers will be able to fly. They are, after all, *skimmers*. They skim. Though there is likely an upgrade you can pay for, like the old engine upgrades that let you fly high.

I can see vypers and piranhas becoming fliers though, possibly, until the new dexes come in.

As for Sisters, we do have access to the imperial flying transports in IA. I never got any because I thought they looked boxy. Also, Celestine is awesome at taking out troops at present. However, she may have been designed with taking out fliers in mind. We don't know. And my Canoness will certainly be getting more outings if the rules that she and her command group now get are rumoured correctly.

Carnifexes may also see more outings now. Full attacks at S9 / 10? Close range AP2 shooting, followed by the ability to smush terminators in CC? Yes please...

To be honest, I was always disappointed that terminator armour was made rubbish by 3rd Ed. It used to be 3+ on 2D6, which much more accurately portrayed how awesome it was. Even though I play no armies that have it, I don't mind terminators being so much harder to kill. Of course, a comparative points rise would be nice to represent that, it won't happen anytime soon. They'll still be as cheap as my Warriors. *shrug*

It also makes me think I may want to convert some Sisters in terminator armour as I can ally in some, but that's for later...

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post #470 of 574 (permalink) Old 06-22-12, 04:07 PM
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Intercepting Swooping Hawks may make a comeback.
4+ To Hit with Haywire Grenades...

Though I take your life, I promise you the stars...
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