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post #81 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 02:25 PM
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Oh, but the codex, per se, is not purely a gaming tool and I wouldn't want those mini-dex to come back, In fact, a lot of the anger with the SoB mini-dex is the lack of additional fluff, etc (along with the, let's say, lackluster rules).

But the digital copy of the codex (and rule book) are almost purely gaming tools. I own all my codexes and I loved reading them with a nice beer in my lazyboy. But when I go playing somewhere and I have to browse through, possibly damage or even lose my codex, I always bring a printed copy of the PDF. I keep a copy of my codexes, and latest FAQs in a binder. These contain only the bare essential, like the very popular mini-rulebook... This is would have been a wonderful occasion for Games Workshop. At 5 pounds (or 8$...), I'm pretty sure those PDFs would have sold like hot cakes. Why bother trying to download the codex (no matter tracking it online) and getting a crappy copy of cellphone camera pictures?

More than that, buy the physical copy of the codex and get a free download of the PDF... Players who care about their army (and 99% players do) will buy that nice color-pictures book, so just give them that PDF and put a smile on their face. Now, will that stop some people from copying, downlaoding the PDFs? No. But it really can't get worse than now. And even then, the more the rules run around as PDFs (either cheap via GW or illegally), the more those who read them will be tempted to buy the miniatures...

Not to mention another thing. Producing an interactive digital codex like that SM codex must be quite more costly. Whenever I bring about the fact that GW should devote more time fixing the FAQs by just reading a bit online, rooting out common questions, and adding them to the PDF, I get answered: time is money, that's too expensive!!! Now, taking the SM codex they already have and putting it on the web for 10$ OR adding a lot of gizmos that players will tire of (because, really, once you've seen the spinning model once or twice, showed them aroung, got a few "Aaaaahhhhh- Ooooohhhhh", you'll move around the the rules 99% of the time) and selling it for 10$ more, is it worth the expense?

Now, don't get me wrong. I've argued for GW getting into the digital age for years. I'm happy they're finally catching up. I just think they wen't about it the wrong way. It's like a city getting into public transportations, but buying a single lamborghini instead of a couple of buses. Sure, it's a lot nicer, but how many people will you get on board?

Phil

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post #82 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 02:33 PM
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Hahaha, love the analogy.

As for it costing more, I don't know about in Canada, but once the price rise hits over here it will cost exactly the same. Seems a no-brainer at that to me, if I had the requisite platform.
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post #83 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 03:05 PM
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Hum... Either I drank too much this weekend or something weird happened!? Codex: SM is 49.5 on GW Canada (31 pounds) and on iTunes it's 41.99 (26 pounds)!? I'm almost 100% positive it was 49.50 on iTunes this Saturday. I just took for granted that the Codex SM was the same price as the others (39.5$, here), but it's more expensive (because of the size, I guess). So it has gone from the same price to... less expensive!?

*freaked out*

Now, I just have to buy a 600$ iPad

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post #84 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
And what is stopping people from doing this now? Nothing. So at least that way GW would make some money from it. Currently they make 0.
That's exactly what I'm saying. If they sold PDFs right off their site for a little less (at least) than the paper copies they'll easily make more than 0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingElessar View Post
They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.
Well obviously hey learned from the wrong industry. The video game industry figured that if conviant enough people will pay for a game rather than pirate it. I pay attention to the DRM wars and lots of people will pirate a game just because the DRM makes it a pain to play if they can play it at all.

GW doesn't even have to offer PDF or this iBook stuff honestly. If they has section of their website set up that you could log-in, buy, view, and print off bought codex pages that would be fine by me. Long as my phone could get on it too.

Of course iTunes does seem to be doing well enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
"Codexes don't need bells and whistles" is, I think, what boreas was trying to say with the gaming tool bit.

Fluff and miniature showcase are both very important to the appeal of an army. But why pay extra for something in a digital codex that you can already get online from the manufacterer (sp?) for free? (with the exception of which colors were used to paint what miniatures, of course, but I feel that's another argument for another day)
This. I like fluff so I will read it. To play I need the stats for my ridiculous units, the point costs for my ridiculous units and the ridiculous rules to go with them. I dont see the point of paying extra doe turn arounds built into the codex. Hey are cool and all but all I need are te basics and chances are I'm printing out some of it.
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post #85 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingElessar View Post
I disagree Arcane.

They have learned from the music and dvd industries that you can't compete with piracy by selling the same quality product for more than free.

Instead, they've opted for 'bells and whistles edition' of their stuff, so that there's some value in what you pay for.

Especially since, those of us to whom having a PDF is a big enough deal, probably already have them. I know I do.
People want a digital copy (most want it without needing to buy an iMaxipad).

You could either go onto a website which has tons of viruses and download this thing, risking your ISP possibly contacting you, or let's say you could go download one from an account on GW for $5-10. I know I would pay for one, especially if it was a very high quality scan. So that's at least 1 scenario where GW would make more money than they do now. Hypothetically there are thousands more who feel the same, so for a small feature added to the GW store, they could be making tens to hundreds of thousands more than they are now.

And for those who say the digital versions on codex take extra work or no longer exist don't know much about the printing industry. Somewhere on a GW computer in Nottingham is a <300 DPI digital version of every codex which was printed.

From a business perspective, a five-six figure profit increase for something which would take less than 50 man hours is correct. Unfortunately, you are not.

And I have to agree with Phil.

Last edited by Arcane; 06-04-12 at 05:48 PM.
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post #86 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
"Codexes don't need bells and whistles" is, I think, what boreas was trying to say with the gaming tool bit.
As TKE says, when 4th Ed Codecies were released as just rules the format was not popular outside of people who mostly play; fluff aficionados and (more importantly) new entrants to the hobby found the lack of fluff and pretty pictures a real downside. So, form GWs PoV the rules are only part of what a Codex does.
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post #87 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
As TKE says, when 4th Ed Codecies were released as just rules the format was not popular outside of people who mostly play; fluff aficionados and (more importantly) new entrants to the hobby found the lack of fluff and pretty pictures a real downside. So, form GWs PoV the rules are only part of what a Codex does.
I don't think anyone wants a stats only codex. Things like the 360 though fot instance is never something I look at while playing and if I do want to look at them (rare) I can on a bigger screen. So I'm not buying an iPad and paying extra for that. They don't need to remove it but I'm not going to run out and get one. In fact if I had to pay extra I would still probably buy a paper codex and scan in what I need to play anyway even if I did have said iDevice.

They need more than just rules, but I'm not terribly interested in this just yet. Maybe later.
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post #88 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 07:09 PM
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Well, possibly they should stop calling it a codex GW should have gone with:

GW NEWSLETTER:

Quote:
"Digital Gaming aid"

GW introduces "Digital Gaming aids"! DGA (deegees, for short) are a great new tool to help you get into Warhammer fast and easy! Tired of bringing around that extra pile of books? Tired of getting soda and chips on your nice, hardcover codex? Now, on any format, you can get a DGA! Your DGA will contain all the basic rules to play that army you love so much!

As an introduction, GW is proud to give you a great scenarios and missions DGA for free! Also, when you buy that brand new hardcover codex, be sure to use the keycode to download your FREE DGA! No need to spend 500 on an iPad. Spend that 500 on our incredible minis!

Isn't all that Mattwardtastic???

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post #89 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 08:55 PM
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I wish they had gone with an internal service tied in with their website and your GW account. A browser based system where you can buy books to add to your account and open them online, nothing downloadable. This would require internet access to view your books, but it would allow you to use ANY internet device. It would be secure because files are not being downloaded. The site can tell if your logged in, so multiple devices cannot be logged on at the same time.

My thought is something similar to Battlefield 3 on the PC. It runs through an online/offline platform called Origin developed by EA games. Origin is just a log-in method where you launch your games from, like Steam from Valve which started with the Half Life products. The game itself, Battlefield 3, is managed on a web browser: Battlelog. Of course it wouldn't work the exactly the same, but it is a great template.

But why stop there?

I think a very different and interesting approach would be as follows:
1) Make all content digital
2) Develop an app for major OS (Apple, Windows, Android)
3) Make ALL digital content FREE, but...
4) Charge a monthly fee for access to ALL the content.

How often do we buy a codex? Personally, I have bought 2 codex and one rule book in the past 5 years. That's about $130 in book content. so $26 a year from me. I know a lot of people change armies more frequently and might get more (or A LOT more) books than I have, but thats not really the point of this. Lets say you spend twice as much as I have, so lets round to $50 a year on book content. What if GW had this service and charged... $5 a month for access to start. That's already $60 a year and over twice what I give them for books. But you do get more, ALL of the GW content for no additional price including future updates, releases, additions, etc. The fee would have to account for development of future GW content and the development/maintenance of the application itself. It may seem silly, but I don't know a single person that I game with that buys more than 1 codex a year, if any at all. Like I said before though, everyone is different. The flat fee for all content would average it out because some people would be spending less and some people would be spending more on a year-to-year basis.

Now what type of good things does this do for GW? Well, other than getting more money from me a year, it would help build and strengthen the community. New-comers would be able to catch-up on all the fluff quickly because all of the information is available to them. GW can upload other content like a newsletter and daily/weekly articles. They can make additions to content like they currently make in White Dwarf. It could evolve into a social media where gamers can stay in touch and organize events with their local stores. Event calendars can be created. You could have profiles and status when your available for a challenge. With all content being available, it is more likely that person would become interested in a new army. It would become more attractive for people to build a lot of smaller armies and then expand on the ones they like the most. All you would have to get is the models. No shipping, no international pricing or related taxes, less material used for physical books, greener company.

The variable could always differ. Maybe $10 a month. Maybe $5 a month and cheap addition costs per piece of content (like $5 for a codex).

To clarify again: this would be content accessed through an account and an application. Downloads would have to be a secure format (not PDF or something universal) and they would not go onto your device as individual files. The download would be attached to your account and only accessed through your account. This could be an online/offline application that required internet access to download/update content and access the community areas, but then the downloads would be available through the program offline just like Itunes, Amazon, Blockbuster, Kindle, etc.

Its not Itunes, its WarDocs.

This would be my dream community for GW because it makes it easy for players, easy for GW to update and release content, and it will help the community grow.

Sorry if it feels like I was rushing, because I was. Too many ideas flowing through my brain and I had to get them down. So please don't bash all the details, just think of the big picture of such a service.

"Bide your time and hold out hope"
-The Count of Monte Cristo

Last edited by Desolatemm; 06-04-12 at 10:44 PM.
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post #90 of 111 (permalink) Old 06-04-12, 09:02 PM
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I find that strange, desolatemm, because most players I know buy at least every other codex, afaik, and personally I have bought, since 5th came out, 6 of them.
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