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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-09-12, 02:44 PM
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Sorry to pipe in like this Jezlad, but the idea of wounds does make quite a bit of sence in terms of real combat. Take modern war for example. a standard 5.56mm round will not provide a single kill shot as it is mainly designed to penitrate light body armor and tends to be going as such a high speed to punch thru the target in question. Now, I am an ammo troop, not a combat troop. If I get shot, I for one will be thinking about my wife and kids, and am going to hit the dirt and call for medical evac: one wound. If I am in an Alamo situation where evac is not an option, I would say that I would be good for two wounds, at least for the battle. I would most likely die of blood loss near the end of the battle. Special Operations groups or Elite troops would be trained to resist pain and to understand that a limb wound so long as it did not restrict mobility can be ignored until the mission is compleated.
You ever played a war game set in a training exercise or in a situation where life and death isn't on the line?

In real life I agree... if you aren't dying in the next 10 minutes you'll just hang on and wait for casevac... is that situation ever the case in a wargame though?

Wounds makes no sense at all. Does your commander in the military have twice as many lives as you? Is he able to take 2 or 3 times as many bullets? To suggest that wounds makes real sense and relate it to real life is absurd.

That is my issue with wounds - the fact the gaffer always has more... nothing at all to do with a fighters determination. Incidentally I factored this into my own ruleset and fighters are able to make a grit test to continue even with grevious wounds. We're on the same page.

Quote:
As for bullet defence we have plenty for a person. First is movement, that helps alot, anyone who has been thru basic knows the montra "I'm up, they see me, I'm down". After that we have a chest and back plate system that weighs about 60 pounds. Its heavy as hell but it will stop a .50 cal shell under the right conditions. (like god deciding he likes you that day.) The helmet is really to stop frag and falling debris not a bullet for the most part.
Chest and Back plate is armour so that would be used to assess damage after a shot has hit or as I said would be used to determine if a shot hurts the target.
As for movement I guess that could be factored into the equasion but wouldn't using cover and ground be used for working out line of sight? Or target speed? Or cover saves?

I guess the movement aspect can be used in a number of different ways... modifiers to the hit roll, a "save roll", modifiers to the damage roll.

Factors that effect the shooter -
Cover
Target Speed
Accuracy
Equipment
Weapon Type

Factors that effect the damage -
Armour
Toughness (resilience)
Equipment

The wound system I designed (for a small skirmish game) is awesome.
Quote:
When a model is hit by a Ranged or Close Assault attack you work out the damage total using the method described in the appropriate section (a brief outline is printed below) and consult the table at the bottom of the page.

Cross reference the damage caused by the hit and apply the appropriate injury to the model.

Close Assault Damage Formula
2D6 + Weapons Power – Target Armour and Resilience = Damage Caused

Ranged Attack Damage Formula
2D6 + Weapons Power – Target Armour and Resilience = Damage Caused


............Total Damage
............1.......2......3.....4......5......6.. ...7......8......9....10....11.....12.....13.....1 4......15......16.....17......18.....19.....20
Injury.....F.......F......F.....F......M.....M.... .M.....M.....S.....S.....S......S.......C.....C... .....C........C......O........O......O......O


Injury Effects
Injury Type.......Injury Effect
Flesh Wound.......None
Minor Injury.........-1 All Attributes
Severe Injury.......-2 All Attributes
Critical Injury........Special

As a fighter sustains injuries his ability to operate efficiently suffers.
This system works without wounds.

Every fighter has a different pain threshold based on his resilience. If he takes a huge hit from a rifle he goes out of action. If he takes a small hit he simply suffers a fleshwound - he can carry on. There are 4 levels of damage.

On top of this a fighter can take a "Grit" test at the start of his activation to ignore the modifiers for that turn. (your special forces guy who is trained to resist pain will have a higher Grit value than militia).

Its all factored in - wounds is bullshit and irrelevant. This is flawless. Toughness can replace wounds and remove the "god mode" that comes with it.

Last edited by Jezlad; 04-09-12 at 03:01 PM.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-09-12, 11:58 PM
Icarus Miniatures
 
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Originally Posted by Azkaellon View Post
So.....we have to donate to create a game that we have to pay to buy the mini's for and these guys will make a pretty penny off?
You don't have to do anything. Their already at $44,000 so the game and minis will get made regardless. If you're interested you can just wait for the minis and not pledge. But, if you want to get behind the project, and help make it something more, you can donate.

I won't be donating to this, but I've already chucked $25 at CMON's Zombicide because I really want to own that game, and all those zombies

I, personally, love these kickstarter/indie gogo campaigns. It gives us a chance to help fund some awesome projects.

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