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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-14-14, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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Default 1st Vampire count list - 2400pt - Trying to be competitive

So wrote up my first ever vampire count list, would really appreciate as much support as possible

LORD – Master Necromancer: 215 points
Level 4 Vampires, Talisman of protection

HERO – Banshee: 95 points

HERO – Vampire: 189 points
Level 1 Vampires, Heavy armour, Quickblood, Sword of might, enchanted shield, Dispel Scroll

CORE – 5 Dire Wolves: 40 points
CORE – 5 Dire Wolves: 40 points
CORE – 7 Dire Wolves: 66 points
Doom wolf

CORE – 35 Skeletons: 265 points
Full command, Banner of swiftness

CORE – 30 Zombies: 95 points
Standard
CORE – 30 Zombies: 95 points
Standard

SPECIAL – 7 Hexwraiths: 220 points
Hellwraith

SPECIAL – 8 Crypt Horrors: 315 points
Crypt haunter
SPECIAL – 8 Crypt Horrors: 315 points
Crypt haunter

RARE – Terrorgheist: 225 points
RARE – Terrorgheist: 225 points

2399 points

Front and centre will be my two units of crypt horrors to anvil almost anything coming my way. Behind them will be my unit of skeletons flanked by both units of zombies.

"These units are at round number strength so my opponent does not know exactly where my characters will be placed"

In fact all characters are joining the skeleton unit going 5 wide 7+ deep. The banshee will be in the second rank; until combat where it will make way for my master necromancer, protecting him. (This is if he had not bailed out to one of the nearby zombie units.)

The Dire wolves will do a mixture of redirect/warmachine hunting etc, the doom wolf unit can go for enemy bunkers or units in a single line column

The Hexwraiths will aim to deal with things like opposing chaff (running them down), 1+ armour, DE Warlocks, Regen creatures and things like that.

Finally the dual terrorgheists are my punch to the rest of my armies hold. They will hit the opponent hardest where it can do the most damage

It comes in at 2399 points, what do you think?

Last edited by Minigiant; 01-16-14 at 04:16 PM.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-14-14, 01:19 AM
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If you're spending that much on your Lord, you need to get him into CC as fast as possible. Put him in a Wightknightbus.

Hexwraiths are terrible. Most competitive lists last time I played regularly took some form of magic missile to deal with Vampires Ethereal units.

Vargheists are okay, but fairly glass-hammerish. I prefer units of 6. Dual Terrorgheist wins.

Unfortunately, you're pulling yourself in too many directions here.



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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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@Vaz I agree with you on nearly everything you said that is why post 1 and army list above have now been updated. The thing i disagree with you is:

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Hexwraiths are terrible. Most competitive lists last time I played regularly took some form of magic missile to deal with Vampires Ethereal units.
Hexwraiths cover a lot of answers when it comes to solving the common problems that the meta is currently. They are able to run down opposing chaff and deal with 1+ armour, DE Warlocks, Regen creatures and things like that. Also if you look at the two main comp packages ETC and Swedish, hexwraiths are heavily comped, which to me implies that i am not the only one to believe they are good.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 12:12 PM
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No idea why.

http://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-...n-groups-of-10

This is a post explaining why. Any army with 1+ that does not have methods of dealing with Ethereal units is asking to be beaten.

Bretts and Wood Elves have Grail Knights and Hail of Doom arrows rape them. I'm not seeing it honestly, and aside from someone probably maxing out Ethereal Choices in a big *fuck you* list, they don't do well. To maximise them, you have to send them against War Machines. If the enemy doesn't have any, you're fucked. Monsters; you're fucked.

Anything with the Dragonbane Gem, you're fucked.

I'll have another look at your list in a bit, but I don't really run lists like that, I instead prefer the Knightbus Style; after all no sense in not playing Vampires with Vampire counts. I honestly think that with the Horrors, you might find the Mortis Engine better.



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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Bretts and Wood Elves have Grail Knights and Hail of Doom arrows rape them. I'm not seeing it honestly, and aside from someone probably maxing out Ethereal Choices in a big *fuck you* list, they don't do well. To maximise them, you have to send them against War Machines. If the enemy doesn't have any, you're fucked. Monsters; you're fucked.

Anything with the Dragonbane Gem, you're fucked.
Out of your three suggestions only one is really commonly seen in the meta. Yes most armies have magic but that can be controlled with dispel. Magical attacks, i wont be charging, just driving through.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 02:48 PM
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Magic wins games. Either the ability to stop it, or the ability to completely dominate it.

Dispel doesn't work like it should. You'll have the dice to stop at most 2 spells, really, and 1 scroll a game, which will invariably be done T1.

Against Magical Attacks, you don't often have a choice, they invariably have some method of getting to you. Either on the entire army (Daemons, Wood Elves, Bretons, Vampire Counts) or on dedicated units (usually heavy cavalry, like Chaos Knights, or units buffed with one of the several spells which provide magical attacks).

Hitting the target when you walk over will do a couple of casualties, but not enough to really damage anything that much, as such units are either dead cheap (Empire Knights) or are tanking with a Ward Save and capable of saving against them.



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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-16-14, 03:35 PM
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@ the both of you

I've been following this thread, as well the multiple ones Minigiant started at Carpe Noctem during the past coulple days, and have come to the conclusion that you, Minigiant, should simply start to put some games under your belt to collect your OWN experiences.

As of now, you've listened to a damn lot of advice, have seen what the internet dubs as the best 'net-lists' and have gotten a general feel for the army book. Probably not for the army itself though.
Also, the so-called 'net-lists' are often just a bunch of min-maxed statlines and nothing more. Sure, they all look awesome on paper, but how exactly they perfom depends completly on your local (or over-regional) meta game (how I loathe that word).

Also, it becomes quite obvious that the two of you come from very different metas, or none at all as of now in the case of Minigiant. Hell, there even seems to be a a huge gap between Vaz's and mine !
As for magic ... yeah, it can win you games ... but then, it can also achieve nothing the entire game.
Magic is very, very luck based on the Winds of Magic, so you either go big or don't fiddle about it at all. Essentialy this means you'll go for the best sort of wizard you can get away with, usually a level four, or save up the points, really. Bringing just a level one or level two to a match where your opponent sports a level four with Book of Hoeth or the WE dispel staff will yield you nothing - you'll probably get away with succesfully casting one spell or so during the entire game.
I've played a lot of games without magic during the past couple months, doing perfectly fine. Of course, this isn't an option for VC, being totally in the need for at least a single LotV caster to act as their general.
Keeping this in mind, I allways eschew a Vampire Lord in games under 2.000 pts, instead aiming for a Master Nacromancer. Saves you precious points and helps you to aim for magical dominance.

Hexwraiths ... don't even get me started.
As it stands, they have the potential to be outrageously powerful, clearing away enemy chaff, skirmishers and fast cav, and being just plain annoying. People in my own local meta think of them as the most cheasiest units in the game, and under certain circumstances that holds true. Enough reason for me NOT to play them .. and I've never missed them. That's the beauty about VC ... there's a lot of possible and useful army builds out there, not just the i-net lists. Of course, depending on your setup, VC need a lot more finesse to be played to high effect when compared to some other armies.
On the other hand, like Vaz mentioned, Hexwraiths ARE easily cleared of the table IF your opponent has the sufficient amount of magic (sounds familiar ?) or magical shooting.
Their usefulness entirely depends on the the setup of your opponents army ... and while I can't speak for anyone but myself in this regard ... I hate to tailor lists to specific opponents and try to always field all-comers list. Yes, at times you'll lose big time, certain lists simply work in the old-fashioned rock-paper-scissors way, but most of the time there's no need to tailor.

One last thing about Hexwraiths in general: They're fast cav. Period.
As it stands, fast cav is probably the most annoying and unbalanced thing in the 8th edition ruleset. Something I seriously hope they'll change with the advent of 9th ed.

A general thing about VC rare choices: Two Terrorgheists aren't considered to be the new black any longer: too easy to kill and / or counter. Keep that in mind.
And, like Vaz pointed out allready, Mortis Engines would offer a lot more synergies to your list Minigiant.

As for the 'revised' list: All in all, it seems quite okay, but it lacks focus, like has been said before.
- Drop the Banshee, I really see no synergies with the rest of your list. If you want a bodyguard for the MN take something tougher. If not, just eject her from the list.
- Hero level vampires are potentially awesome. But they're very very fragile for their points cost as well. Yours needs better protection in case it isn't meant to be a throw-away, which I can't come to think its meant to be since its your only one.
- Lots of wolves. Some people like to depend on them, some don't. Yes, they're awesome re-directors if used properly, but also very squishy. Keep that in mind.
- Skeleton Bus: I assume this is where you want to put your hero vamp ? If so, nice idea, but that is exactly what I was talking about earlier: your hero vamp will be singled out, killed, and the skeletons will crumble. Either bring a tougher hero vamp to make this more solid, or put more characters into the skeleton bus.
- Zombies are okay.
- HEx's are okay, keeping in mind what I wrote above.
- 2x8 Crypt Horrors: I seriously hope this list is meant for tournament play only, because people will hate you if you bring these bricks to friendly games, just sayin'. They will do their job.
- Terrorgheists: Switch for Mortis Engines for better synergies.

Wow, long post, but it saves me from posting again on Carpe Noctem.
Perhaps, it also makes you start to think out-of-the-competitive-box in regards to VC list building and i-net lists.

Peace.

40k Armies: Dark Eldar / Adepta Sororitas
WHFB Armies: Vampire Counts / Empire / various Elves
Horus Heresy: Alpha Legion / Warp Cult
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