@ the both of you
I've been following this thread, as well the multiple ones Minigiant started at Carpe Noctem during the past coulple days, and have come to the conclusion that you, Minigiant, should simply start to put some games under your belt to collect your OWN
As of now, you've listened to a damn lot of advice, have seen what the internet dubs as the best 'net-lists'
and have gotten a general feel for the army book. Probably not for the army itself though.
Also, the so-called 'net-lists'
are often just a bunch of min-maxed statlines and nothing more. Sure, they all look awesome on paper, but how exactly they perfom depends completly on your local (or over-regional) meta game (how I loathe that word).
Also, it becomes quite obvious that the two of you come from very different metas, or none at all as of now in the case of Minigiant. Hell, there even seems to be a a huge gap between Vaz's and mine !
As for magic ... yeah, it can win you games ... but then, it can also achieve nothing the entire game.
Magic is very, very luck based on the Winds of Magic
, so you either go big or don't fiddle about it at all. Essentialy this means you'll go for the best sort of wizard you can get away with, usually a level four, or save up the points, really. Bringing just a level one or level two to a match where your opponent sports a level four with Book of Hoeth or the WE dispel staff will yield you nothing - you'll probably get away with succesfully casting one spell or so during the entire game.
I've played a lot of games without magic during the past couple months, doing perfectly fine. Of course, this isn't an option for VC, being totally in the need for at least a single LotV caster to act as their general.
Keeping this in mind, I allways eschew a Vampire Lord in games under 2.000 pts, instead aiming for a Master Nacromancer. Saves you precious points and helps you to aim for magical dominance.
Hexwraiths ... don't even get me started.
As it stands, they have the potential to be outrageously powerful, clearing away enemy chaff, skirmishers and fast cav, and being just plain annoying. People in my own local meta think of them as the most cheasiest units in the game, and under certain circumstances that holds true. Enough reason for me NOT
to play them .. and I've never missed them. That's the beauty about VC ... there's a lot of possible and useful army builds out there, not just the i-net lists. Of course, depending on your setup, VC need a lot more finesse to be played to high effect when compared to some other armies.
On the other hand, like Vaz mentioned, Hexwraiths ARE easily cleared of the table IF your opponent has the sufficient amount of magic (sounds familiar ?) or magical shooting.
Their usefulness entirely depends on the the setup of your opponents army ... and while I can't speak for anyone but myself in this regard ... I hate to tailor lists to specific opponents and try to always field all-comers list. Yes, at times you'll lose big time, certain lists simply work in the old-fashioned rock-paper-scissors way, but most of the time there's no need to tailor.
One last thing about Hexwraiths in general: They're fast cav. Period.
As it stands, fast cav is probably the most annoying and unbalanced thing in the 8th edition ruleset. Something I seriously hope they'll change with the advent of 9th ed.
A general thing about VC rare choices: Two Terrorgheists aren't considered to be the new black any longer: too easy to kill and / or counter. Keep that in mind.
And, like Vaz pointed out allready, Mortis Engines would offer a lot more synergies to your list Minigiant.
As for the 'revised'
list: All in all, it seems quite okay, but it lacks focus, like has been said before.
- Drop the Banshee, I really see no synergies with the rest of your list. If you want a bodyguard for the MN take something tougher. If not, just eject her from the list.
- Hero level vampires are potentially awesome. But they're very very fragile for their points cost as well. Yours needs better protection in case it isn't meant to be a throw-away, which I can't come to think its meant to be since its your only one.
- Lots of wolves. Some people like to depend on them, some don't. Yes, they're awesome re-directors if used properly, but also very squishy. Keep that in mind.
- Skeleton Bus: I assume this is where you want to put your hero vamp ? If so, nice idea, but that is exactly what I was talking about earlier: your hero vamp will be singled out, killed, and the skeletons will crumble. Either bring a tougher hero vamp to make this more solid, or put more characters into the skeleton bus.
- Zombies are okay.
- HEx's are okay, keeping in mind what I wrote above.
- 2x8 Crypt Horrors: I seriously hope this list is meant for tournament play only, because people will hate you if you bring these bricks to friendly games, just sayin'. They will do their job.
- Terrorgheists: Switch for Mortis Engines for better synergies.
Wow, long post, but it saves me from posting again on Carpe Noctem.
Perhaps, it also makes you start to think out-of-the-competitive-box
in regards to VC list building and i-net lists.