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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-12-12, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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Default [6th] 1850 Advice Needed

I don't play Tyranids myself, I'm posting this to help a friend who is becoming discouraged with his army. 'Nids probably suffered the most transitioning into 6th edition and he's not had much luck with trying to find their new strengths. We've played several matches and each has been pretty one sided in my favor. I've been trying to help him refine his list but I have no play experience with them, so I've decided to write a list up and try them out for myself. Here's what I came up with:

HQ
285 Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings, Hive Commander (not sure what powers to take here, might have a go with Biomancy and Paroxysm)
85 Tyranid Prime - Deathspitter

Elites
150 Hive Guard (3)
150 Hive Guard (3)
100 Hive Guard (2)

Troops
150 Termigaunts (20) - Mycetic Spore - TL Deathspitter
150 Termigaunts (20) - Mycetic Spore - TL Deathspitter
150 Termigaunts (20) - Mycetic Spore - TL Deathspitter
100 Termigaunts (20)

Heavy Support
265 Tyranofex - Rupture Cannon
265 Tyranofex - Rupture Cannon

My plan: Everything but gaunt spores will start on table and target transports and high threats (basically anything with a flamer), so that when the spores hit the gaunts will have plenty of targets to mow through and they won't get splatted the next turn. Prime will hide behind a group of hive guard to keep synapse for them and tyranofexs... fexese... fexi?

This seems to be the biggest problem we've noticed with 'Nids. They don't have superior range or mobility to get where they need to be most effective. So it comes down to dropping them next to your opponent, ensuring they get their maximum number of shots.

Another option would be to use groups of ten gaunts with devourers. It's more shots, but ten gaunts is much easier to get rid of than twenty.

Any comments, criticism, and advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 12:25 AM
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TBH this list won't win your friend many games.

1st. The hive tyrant - can't take rulebook power and codex powers - so just go with biomancy. Other than that he is decent.


2nd. Hive guard are good. They would be ok in a normal tyranid list.

3rd. Troops are bad. The only gants you should spore are devilgants. The TL deathspitters are a total waste on the spores. They really won't do much - especially without support - which they have none of. If you want a bunch of termagants then take some tervigons along with them.

4th. Tyrannofexes suck. You are paying land raider prices for 1 s10 hit per turn. If you really need s10 zoans do it much better - and the 8 hive guard + flyrant will do plenty anti-mech. The prime is essentially fourscore points to make a crappy unit... still just as bad. If you need to run a t-fex, I'd go with acid spray, dessicator larva and cluster spines so you aren't relying on his bs 3.

OK - specific overview done with - now onto tactics. The stuff that starts on the board won't really do jack - and certainly won't kill "all the flamers". The HG are great for vehicle killing, but not on turn 1 - where they are probably out of range. The tyrant can shoot down almost anything, but he is only one model - he can't carry the army. On turn one the t-fexes will get boned 50% of the time by night fight. Also, you won't be able to kill really any flamer carrying marines.

Then the termagants come in and - "mow through stuff". No. 20 bs3 shots is 10 hits, and 5 wounds versus marines. 1.67 unsaved wounds. Marines rapid-fire bolters back and... blow you away.

In short, this list is lacking punch. It has some nice support stuff (and some not so nice stuff) but nothing - over then the flyrant - is that threatening. He might be a FMC, but he'll die because your opponent will focus everything onto him cause nothing else - with the exception of the HG, can do jack, and they can only kill vehicles. Also, with the exception of the flyrant, who isn't uberexceptional, you have no assault threats. None.

My recommendations - drop the fexes for trygons. Drop hive commander. Drop prime. Drop spores. Get a tervigon or two. Maybe drop a squad of hive guard. Use the rest of the points to pick out something cool.

My tactics articles, if you need help making a new army, or beating one:

High Elves - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=112437

Tyranids - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=118886

New Warriors of Chaos - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=1#post1336092


I have a new theory in life - for everything - from ethics to legal cases - it is called pre-emptive self defense.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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See, this is kind of the problem. I've never played 'Nids so I really don't know how these lists work on the table. I wrote the previous list with him fighting my Grey Knights in mind. Since I know I have superior range on him, I usually set up in the back field and let him run up to me to get in range for devourers or assault. By then his units are too weak to be effective at all. Hence my reasoning for the spores. Also, the 'fexes were to combat the 48" range of my Psyrifle Dreads and occasional Land Raider.

I took some of your suggestions and came up with this:

HQ
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings

Elites
150 Hive Guard (3)
150 Hive Guard (3)
220 Zoanthropes (3) - Mycetic Spore

Troops
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs

How I think it will play: With the new terrain rules, it's really easy to give yourself the best advantage for deployment. I'll usually try to set up some large blocking terrain, like buildings or walls, 6-12" outside of my deployment zone. This will give the Hive Guard something to run up to and hide behind. That way they are out of line of sight and not getting shot at, but still able to target vehicles that are just inside my opponent's deployment zone.

Tyrants will buzz around and target light transports or enemy MCs. Probably take powers from Biomancy and hope to get life leech. Zoanthropes will drop in on any high armour, or three of their blasts on a group of marines could do some serious damage.

My biggest question about the Terv/gaunt set up is how do you field these units? If you have the gaunts up front, then you run a high risk of being assaulted with their 12" gun range. Not to mention they usually get shot to shiz before they are close enough to shoot. If you put the Tervs up front then they would get shot down first which takes away synapse. Their guns are fairly close range as well, so you run the same risks of getting into the assault, which against Grey Knights is not preferable. What's the deal, how do you make this work?
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abitterbuffalo View Post
HQ
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings
Two tyrants is a lot of points for a 3+ armor, no invuln warrior. Spend the 20 extra points for a Swarm lord if you're going this load out, he's well worth it. If not, drop one tyrant. More on this later.
Quote:

Elites
150 Hive Guard (3)
150 Hive Guard (3)
220 Zoanthropes (3) - Mycetic Spore
Not a bad choice, but you're endangered by STR: 8+ patterns here. And they show up a fair amount. Place your pod with care.
Quote:


Troops
100 Termigaunts (20)
get a pod. It will allow your 'gants to not be shot up turn 1.
Quote:


170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs

100 Termigaunts (20)
Pod. Note above
Quote:

170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
Fast Attack:160 Harpy. Replaces the Flyrant's winged duties. Pods fill out the points recovered from Tyrant loss.
Quote:
I've found with a few pods scattered around to be mobile terrain and blocking, 'nids can find a niche in the 6th edition battlefield.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 03:46 PM
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Termagants are cannon fodder, plain and simple... you march forward with your Tervigons and termagants in one massive wave. Never worry about saving the Termagants, because the Tervigons will just pop more out. Plus, does your friend have more then 60 of the models? If not then recycling the dead models will be the only way to benefit from the respawning from the Tervigon.

To increase your troops survival rate is give the Tervigons the ability to cast Feel no pain on surrounding friendly units. Tervigons should never be taken without this ability. It makes up its points worth in every game. You basically give a Termagant a 5+ save even against bolter fire.

In relation to fielding the units, use your termagants to tar pit enemy forces in close combat with numbers. You throw termagants at anything thats too "shooty" for you to handle, cutting down the enemies fire power. Then you throw a Tervigon into the melee for good measure. Your Tervigon wont get shot, and can keep birthing more termagants within close combat!

Against close combat experts however you may find this tactic doesnt work as effectively but numbers and poison will still help win fights.

There is a multitude of tactics for this core asset of a Tyranid army. Get your friend to test out all kinds of a scenarios to find a best fit for his army!

Even though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'm there waiting... and your not coming out alive!
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abitterbuffalo View Post
HQ
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings
260 - Hive Tyrant - TL Devourer [2], Wings

This is what I usually run and they work well.

Elites
150 Hive Guard (3)
150 Hive Guard (3)
220 Zoanthropes (3) - Mycetic Spore

I wouldn't bother with the zoanthropes. There are better tools. Two groups of two guard work well.

Troops
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs
100 Termigaunts (20)
170 Tervigon - Toxin Sacs

Drop the Termiguants to minimum numbers and take only two tervigons and two guant slots.
look at ymargls and trygons... maybe some raveners.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lokis222 View Post
look at ymargls and trygons... maybe some raveners.
We've looked over raveners and generally dislike them. T4 with three wounds is fairly useless due to all the S8 weapons out there. What's so special about the Trygon? One wound from my hammers is all I need to kill these things. Is there something I'm missing that makes them great?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 12:20 AM
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one wound and a successful psychic check. Trigon Primes have Shadow in the Warp, it tends to screw around with those psychic checks.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, but Trygon Prime is almost as much as the Tyranofex at that point. You've got to run the Trygon into close combat or ds him which means that it will be turn 3+ before he assaults. Easy enough to avoid or shoot down before he has any effectiveness. I'd rather have one S10 hit from turn 1, than too little too late.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 12:46 PM
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About the trygon/tfex - it is your choice but you are probably in the minority now. Don't forget he can challenge out the hammers if they are on a veteran-seargentesque unit. With cover saves and night fight and the damage table, the tyrannofex isn't reliable at all. You will miss both you shots 1/4 times.

Somebody already said this but you need catalyst on the tervigons.

Ymgarls are better in this edition. They didn't really get anything but compared to 5th they are miles better then genestealers and the like.

Trygon primes also have 12 s5 shots. Can mess up rear armour of a transport and kill a few meqs.

If you don't like the trygon, then get a swarmlord and put him in a squad with 2-3 boneguard. Swarmy can get iron arm for eternal warrior and can give FNP/IwnD to himself/his unit to make them even beefier. Should kill a strike squad before they get to hammer somebody and the ID on swarmy's weapons will mess up paladins if you guys run them. Unlike what someone previously said - he doesn't replace a double devs flyrant. They have totally different purposes and roles.

In short - you need assault units. GKs aren't really the kings of assualt. You are underrating trygons, and overrating tfexes. If you are that scared of MCs getting beaten up by force weapons, then grab homogaunts or ymgarls.

My tactics articles, if you need help making a new army, or beating one:

High Elves - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=112437

Tyranids - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=118886

New Warriors of Chaos - https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...=1#post1336092


I have a new theory in life - for everything - from ethics to legal cases - it is called pre-emptive self defense.

Last edited by DivineEdge; 11-14-12 at 12:48 PM.
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