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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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the matrix!

i was watching the matrix (the first one), and i was presented with a philosophical dilemma; what really is REAL? i decided to do research on the subject, and came up with all kinds of crazy stuff; one theory states that negative and positive are the same, that real and not real are both one; another theory states that i exist unless i think i exist...but that wouldn't matter unless i really existed! would it?
in the matrix, the modern day is a simulated reality, and a post apocalyptic wasteland is the real world...nobody really knows the truth, and those that do would be instantly branded lunatics if they tried to convince the general population of the truth.
so my question is thus; if reality is really real, how do we know?

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 09:20 AM
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If what you are asking is "is this all a simulation" then the evidence is that it is not.
You see in order to simulate something you must store it as data, the closer the simulation the more data is required. To run this simulation you must store this data. If you wanted the simulation to be perfect you would have to simulate every particle. Now to simulate every atom you must store at least 5 bits of data for each particle (spin, charge, speed, position, direction of movement and the last three cannot all be known at the same time accurately). To store this data you need an way of storing it, the smallest way you know you can do this is in the spin of an electron. Now you'll need 5 times as many electrons in the simulator as particles in the simulation to do this. This means that the universe that is creating the simulation must be at least 5 times more massive than this one, and that is just the simulation. This is considered most unlikely be those physicists who think about these things (according to New Scientist)

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 09:25 AM
 
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I think therefore i am.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad King George View Post
I think therefore i am.
Bacteria don't think, but they are, or am.

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If somthing is worth doing, it's worth taking too far, "We set our motley puppets on the clouds and call them gods...","Ah! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!" "Come see the violence inherent in the system!" "HELP HELP! I AM BEING REPRESSED!"

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koppo View Post
Bacteria don't think, but they are, or am.
Gotcha there King lol.

Reality is how you define it for yourself. Those with insanity may view reality differently than the rest of us do but even though it is not a true vision of reality as the rest of us know it, it is all too often real enough to them. It is all a matter of perspective.

one thing I want is the ability to split my fire everywhere, it makes no sense that a squad of 10 guard or marines or whatever all have to fire at 1 target with everything, is the guy with the lascannon not smart enough to realize maybe he would be better off firing at the massive tank looming overhead instead of the little man no bigger than a squat running at him, or is that far too complex for the 10yr olds?

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 06:01 PM
 
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Gotcha there King lol.

Reality is how you define it for yourself. Those with insanity may view reality differently than the rest of us do but even though it is not a true vision of reality as the rest of us know it, it is all too often real enough to them. It is all a matter of perspective.
a bacteria merely exists in our world
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-11-08, 06:19 PM
 
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Every one preceives reality in there own little way, so in realilty, reality is what you make of it.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-08, 01:29 AM
 
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*sigh* Ahhh... philosophical debate. There's not much that I ... well... the word isn't enjoy, or hate. I am filled with loathing for some of the asinine thoughts I have heard uttered from the mouths of people I know, yet for some reason I can't help but argue about it instead of just saying, "That is utterly idiotic, and I find it repugnant that you would assault my ears with such tripe."

And... in that vein... look at yourself as a symbiotic being. You have your brain or mind, and then you have your body, with little nervy tendrils snaking throughout in order to get information. Now your view of the world; sight, smell, taste, sense of direction, etc are all interpreted from the various sensory organs of the body by the brain. Your perception of what's around is, in a very real way, a simulation created by the brain, in the brain and for the brain.

Oh, and in terms of having to have all the information stored, not so. There are ways to cheat that. Algorithms in programming do a wonderful job of it. Hell... an MP3 with a high enough sample rate is indistinguishable from live music. It doesn't change the fact that the MP3 is an imperfect representation of the actual sound.

My advice on the whole thing? Leave philosophy to those who have managed to con their way out of having real jobs and get paid by the government to think their deep thoughts in our colleges and universities. Unless, of course, you want to con the government, too.

Edit: Oh! I almost forgot. Hippies also get to wax philosophical, they just don't have to pretend that any intelligence drives what they're saying.

Last edited by wetware; 02-12-08 at 01:47 AM.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-08, 02:28 AM
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What if we percive something to be real, that isn't? Would that simply not exist, instead be a product of an imagined reality? Or a thought? Do thoughts exist, as they themselves are created by people who know simply that they think they exist? Frankly, if the arguement is "I think, therefore I am," is the subject of Abortion groundless? Also, vegetables don't think, and we wage war over pulling the plug. Do they exist?

Can reality even be imagined? It's an oxymoron. Imagined Reality. Therefore, anything that is imagined does not exist, even though it may in the future. If we follow this, anything that is thought up is not real, at least until things combine to make it a reality. But how would an imagination become reality if Imagined Reality cannot exist?

Gah! It's making my brain hurt.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 02-12-08, 02:37 AM
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well, see, it goes like this....

the answer to the only question that matters is 42. that's all we really need to know. you see, it's the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything...so really, nothing else matters.

besides, if we actually found out what the universe is and what it's for, well, it'd blow up and be replaced with something infinitely more complex. this has probably already happened.....

oh, and btw, all of this is the reason for the '42' in loyalist42....



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