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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-30-11, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Default Skaven bb team help, which one?

Hey what's going on? Just asking for a bit of help with a skaven blood bowl team and in looking into some input here, I've got to teams set up and wondering which one would be better in a league?
My friend plays orcs so until we get a few more people they will be the main team I verse. Thanks!!

2x Gutter Runner 160K
2x Storm Vermin 180K
1x Thrower 70K
7x Linerats 350K
3x TRR 180K
6x FF 60K
Total: 1000K

Well this one is for the fact it has everything so I thought this might be a good start then also this one...

4x Gutter runner 320k
2x stromvermin 180k
5x linerats 250k
3x TRR 180k
7x FF 70k
Total: 1000k

I like the second one more cause the thought of 4 gutter runners on the field seems like i could run rings around them, but then it kinda seems i will lose a lot of I lose to many guys in the first half and then can't buy them back due to how much they are.

How ironic it is that as fast as we spread progress and hope throughout the galaxy, the Tyranids spread death and despair. Only united can we hope to stand against them.

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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-01-11, 11:25 AM
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I'd probably go with the first team. It gives you a spare rat incase of accidents and has more hitting power because less guys with st2 ie the gutterrunners. If orcs are going to be your main opponent then definitly go for the first because he will have black orcs to push the str bonus in his favor. The speed of the gutterrunners won't help you if they are the only ones standing

good team list none the less
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-02-11, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that.
Hopefully have my team ready to play some games in a couple of weeks!

How ironic it is that as fast as we spread progress and hope throughout the galaxy, the Tyranids spread death and despair. Only united can we hope to stand against them.

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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-14-11, 10:06 PM
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If your main opponent is going to be Orcs, then Stormvermin are a complete waste of time. You'll be out-Blocked on every front and the horrendously overpriced Stormvermin won't be of significant help. Come to think of it, Stormvermin are a complete waste of money whoever you're playing against. They're the sort of player you buy because you've already got 8 Re-Rolls, 4 Gutter Runners, 2 Throwers and an Apothecary and you haven't got anything better to spend your cash on. Stormvermin will not win you games. Gutter Runners, Throwers and fielding 11 players throughout the match will. You're better off buying 2 Throwers and a Linerat at the cost of the 2 Stormvermin and 1 FF. Hell, you're better off buying 3 Linerats and more FF than 2 Stormvermin. For league play, you can't go wrong with the following lineup:

4x Gutter Runner (320k)
2x Thrower (140k)
7x Linerat (350k)
3x Re-Roll (180k)
2x FF (20K)

It's a little lacking in FF, but you'll quickly pick up more because you'll win. You could drop a Thrower for another Re-Roll and +1 FF, but I've always found having 13 players lucky as a Skaven player! Played properly, a Skaven team will struggle to lose against Orcs, if only because you can quite literally run rings around them. The only chance an Orc player has against Skaven is is the Skaven coach tries to play the Orcs at their own game and gets bogged down in a melee.

Good Luck.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 08-31-11, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Puggles View Post
If your main opponent is going to be Orcs, then Stormvermin are a complete waste of time. You'll be out-Blocked on every front and the horrendously overpriced Stormvermin won't be of significant help. Come to think of it, Stormvermin are a complete waste of money whoever you're playing against. They're the sort of player you buy because you've already got 8 Re-Rolls, 4 Gutter Runners, 2 Throwers and an Apothecary and you haven't got anything better to spend your cash on.
Good Luck.
Come on now, this is very poor advice. This might be more of a fair argument in a NAF type resurrection tournament (though still not a good idea in my opinion), but for a league you're ignoring some important factors:

1) Strength skill access. Aside from the rat ogre (a massively unreliable player) the stormvermin are the only players on a skaven team with natural strength skill access. Guard is probably the most important skill in the game, particularly in the mid to long term for league play after the block edge wears off. Even early on in leagues, a player with block and guard is a real pain to deal with. As a skaven team, you desperately need to use players very carefully to make blocks on your terms, or your team will be beaten into the ground, and the relatively high movement value on a stormvermin allows you to put that block and guard where they need it.

Skaven are one of the few teams with access to all 5 skill trees (on a double). The fact that you have the potential for a claw and mighty blow (+potentially piling on) player is nothing to sniff at, considering playing a skaven team is always a matter of scoring as many TDs as you can before your team is so ruined you cannot defend properly. Claw and MB can really help to stop the injuries the opposing team cause from getting out of hand. In addition, you also have access to dodge on a double, for the ultimate blodging protective combo.

2) Stormvermin are the only players which start with block on the Skaven roster. Block is crucial early in leagues, before it starts to proliferate, and other skills like wrestle appear in droves to negate it. Since his opponent is starting with orcs (and if he has any sense, a roster of 4 blitzers, 4 black orcs, a thrower, 3 RR and probably 2 linemen) conceding the block edge even further from 2:4 down to 0:4 is quite frankly, silly. He's going to be hit enough as it is. Block's abilities as a defensive skill are equally, or probably even MORE important than as an offensive one.

3) Stormvermin have AV 8: This is the highest armour value on the skaven roster. Yes, AV 8 is average across the teams. Refusing to pack your two most initially survivable players (S3 +Block + AV 8 vs S2/3+AV7) in a league is just opening up your roster to further punishment.

4) Gutter runners hog SPP: Yes, gutter runners are fantastic players. Yes, they will often win you the game. Will they do most of your scoring? - Yes. Should you be actively trying to score with your gutter runners? NO, a thousand times NO. Gutter runners are what makes the skaven team good, as well as fun to play, but they cannot support a team where they have all the skills and the other players have none or few. You really need to get your linerats and stormvermin skilled ASAP. The stormvermin need guard, and the linerats need a mixture of block and wrestle, preferably with at least one with kick, or your team will be defunct after a few matches of heavy injuries. The best way to do this is to try and score with these players, though it is fairly tough to do so considering the skaven styles of play, which normally require quick breakaway tactics, or flooding the backfield with pesky gutter runners that are difficult to cover. The block on the stormvermin along with the MV of 7 means they make solid initial ball handlers and another option as well as the GRs.

Good, tough teams typically have SPP spread fairly equally across the roster. Concentrating your SPP on a few players (especially ones with S2 and AV 7) is a recipe for disaster in the medium to long term of leagues. The earlier you buy your storm vermin, the more chances they have to earn SPP via the MVP to skill up, since players that rely on causing injuries through blocking to skill skill slowly.

Gutter runners are easily injured, and will often be crippled and die, especially if you are using them properly as harassing tools on your opponent's ball carrier. Putting all your SPP into them is silly, as they just become even more of a target for fouling (as it is, they are one of only two players I would foul with any regularity, along with wardancers). When they die (and they will!) you can replace them with a new one which comes with their fantastic initial skill set which allows them to skill up fast if you want them to. - Stormvermin skill slowly. Gutter runners become less effective in the medium and long term of leagues as tackle and particularly diving tackle start to appear. Any orc player worth his teef packs at least 1 gobbo with diving tackle to deal with players like elven catchers and gutter runners. You may be able to run rings around the orcs to start with (though with the correct defensive setup, this can be SIGNIFICANTLY mitigated as the orc player), but once you've scored like that a few times, the orc player WILL learn to make it very difficult for you.

The orcs are a very VERY strong and flexible team, and have access to probably the best starting roster in the game. No other team can pack the amount of block (4) and S4 players (4) into a starting roster that can also include a sure hands player and 3 RRs, whilst then having the option of putting an elusive player onto the pitch as well in the form of the gobbos. The orc player will ALWAYS control the LOS and will frequently be injuring your players whilst suffering few injuries in return. I appreciate that the only real way to beat the orcs as a skaven player is to spread them out with the gutter runners, but if you think that you won't need to use the blocking game, I think you're being very naive.

When using a skaven team against a 'bashing' team, you should always kick the ball to them in my opinion. In blood bowl, it is a lot harder to prevent people scoring than to score yourself (especially as a skaven player, who can frequently score at will). Thus, defending strongly is the most important skill a coach. When you kick the ball to your opponent in the first half, you guarantee that you are defending with your full roster. You can never guarantee this in the second half, where, as a skaven coach, you will frequently have less players than the opponent. You can still score easily with gutter runners if you are missing a few linerats, whereas trying to defend with less players than your opponent means subjecting your team to more punishment, especially players you'd prefer to try and keep safer.

When defending with skaven, you can't afford to be sentimental about your gutter runners. You need to use them aggressively and put pressure on the opponent's ball carrier within their half. If you can force a turnover deep in their half, gutter runners can easily recover the ball and score. Even if you don't steal the ball, you can at least normally force them to waste one or two turns dealing with the gutter runners (turns which are crucial for slower bashing teams to move up the pitch), and frequently this will require them to use their blitz, perhaps saving some of your other, stronger players from punishment for a little longer.

Some other points:

Why the hell do you want 8 rerolls? That is a complete waste of team value, and you'll be conceding a huge amount of inducements to your opponent.

8 rerolls means you use one EVERY TURN IN EACH HALF. That is ridiculous for any competent blood bowl player, let alone a skaven one, who has wide access to AG4 players with great movement values. Blood bowl is a game of minimising risk but knowing when a risk is necessary. The skaven starting roster is packed full of skills that offer free rerolls, with natural dodge on gutter runners and sure hands on throwers. If you are going to have wasted TV sitting anywhere as a skaven coach, it should be sat on the bench in the form of spare linerats to stop you getting eclipsed by injuries in the second half. You should have no need for any more than 4 (or MAYBE 5) rerolls, and you can get by with three, especially if you aren't using the turnover machine that is the rat ogre. Pruning team value is crucial with a more experienced team.

As a skaven player, your thrower should be used to pick up the ball due to the free reroll offered by sure hands, then he should hand it off to a gutter runner, which should be the player to do all the ball handling due to AG4. The ridiculous MV 9 of gutter runners ensures you should really never need to throw the ball, instead simply hand it off to minimise risk, at worst you should only ever need a short pass.

Across the board, fan factor is no longer as important as it was due to the way that receiving funds after games now works, and the introduction of journeymen. Gone are the days where every team had to start with a FF of 10 or they wouldn't be able to compete in leagues, though I agree it is slightly more important for skaven than other teams, due to the high number of injuries sustained and the difficulty of fielding a full roster consistently.

Coach runs a great site at blood bowl tactics, and has some excellent articles on developing players and game strategies. They also run fairly regular cyanide leagues, with some very (VERY) competent players.

http://bbtactics.com/

Signed,

A long time Skaven blood bowl player.

Death magnetic: 5 slabs of vinyl: Pure spinning ecstasy.

Last edited by Pandawithissues...; 08-31-11 at 05:29 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-12-11, 05:36 PM
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^ that above is fantastic advice. Just my 2 cents.

Always, always take 4 Gutter runners. Even if they die, their fantastic initial stats make them worth it. They can dodge the majority of blocks, and being so fast they can always catch a ball carrier/receiver. Also, when your thrower has the ball and you have 2 Gutter Runner near the opponents end zone, that takes so some stopping.

Moreover the opponent will always try to chase down/block gutter runners, freeing up other players to make double blocks.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-23-12, 08:10 AM
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I know this is a huuuuge thread Necro, but I thought I should comment on this, both for new players, and those coming back to BB after a bit of a gap.


If you're playing with the latest rules (the Competition Rules from the GW website, formerly known as LRB6), don't bother taking FF on a starting roster. Whilst under earlier ruleset it was a good idea to get a high a FF as possible on a starting team, due to changes in the rules for winnings, gates and the Kick-Off table, that is no longer the case.

Instead of spending it on FF, buy another player or save it in the treasury.

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