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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-11, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Default [2000 pts] Competitive Vulkan List

Hi folks, after playing codex SM for awhile, I think I want to expand my army, to include Vulkan.

Below is my army list :

HQ - 190 pts

Vulkan He'stan

Troops - 560 pts

Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, 1 x Melta Bomb, Rhino)
Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, Rhino)
Scout Squad (Sergeant Telion, 3 Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML)

Elite - 735 pts

Ironclad Dreadnought (Drop Pod)
Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Terminator Assault Squad (3 x LC, 2 TH/SS, Land Raider Redeemer)

Fast Attack - 180 pts

Land Speeder (MM)
Land Speeder (MM)
Land Speeder (MM)

Heavy Support - 335 points

Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator (TL LC)


The plan :
- Vulkan will go with the Assault Terminators, in the Land Raider Redeemer.
- The tactical squads will follow up with their Rhinos, also securing the middle objective. The tacticals will not be divided into tactical squads, as all of them will go in their Rhinos.
- Sniper with Telion will guard the nearest objective, as usual.
- The Ironclad Dreadnought will deepstrike with drop pod, to support Vulkan and his terminators.
- Dreadnought with 2 x TL AC will deploy on own deployment zone, to provide some firepower and some transport popping capability.
- The Land Speeder will deep strike, and attempt to destroy enemy tanks or transports with their MM.
- Vindicators and Predators will provide fire support.

Alternatives :
- Replace all Landspeeders with Attack Bike, giving 5 Bike (2 x Flamer/Meltagun, 1 x MM, 1 x Combi Melta, 1 x TL Bolter)
- Replace Dreadnought with Ironclad Dreadnought, giving more punch in close combat but less long range firepower


A lot of corrections or suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks a lot!



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-11, 08:20 AM
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The list is fine, except that I would drop the 3 MM speeders for 2 typhoons. Maybe it's just personal preference. If you do keep those speeders (don't get the bikes or secong ironclad), then I would advise you to DS them rather than have them taken out T1.
Tbh, you could have done more with the vulkan aspect of this e.g. Take a MotF with some melta dreads in the HS section, but that's up to you.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-11, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spanner94ezekiel View Post
The list is fine, except that I would drop the 3 MM speeders for 2 typhoons. Maybe it's just personal preference. If you do keep those speeders (don't get the bikes or secong ironclad), then I would advise you to DS them rather than have them taken out T1.
Tbh, you could have done more with the vulkan aspect of this e.g. Take a MotF with some melta dreads in the HS section, but that's up to you.
Thanks for the advice.

So, my updated list and tactics are as follows :
Quote:
Troops - 560 pts

Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, 1 x Melta Bomb, Rhino)
Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, Rhino)
Scout Squad (Sergeant Telion, 3 Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML)

Elite - 735 pts

Ironclad Dreadnought (Drop Pod)
Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Terminator Assault Squad (3 x LC, 2 TH/SS, Land Raider Redeemer)

Fast Attack - 180 pts

Land Speeder (Typhoon ML, HB)
Land Speeder (Typhoon ML, HB)


Heavy Support - 335 points

Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator (TL LC)


The plan :
- Vulkan will go with the Assault Terminators, in the Land Raider Redeemer.
- The tactical squads will follow up with their Rhinos, also securing the middle objective. The tacticals will not be divided into tactical squads, as all of them will go in their Rhinos.
- Sniper with Telion will guard the nearest objective, as usual.
- The Ironclad Dreadnought will deepstrike with drop pod, to support Vulkan and his terminators.
- Dreadnought with 2 x TL AC will deploy on own deployment zone, to provide some firepower and some transport popping capability.
- The Land Speeder will deep strike and provide long-rang fire support.
- Vindicators and Predators will provide fire support.

Alternatives :
- Replace Ironclad and Dreadnought with 5 x Assault Terminator and Land Raider
I am thinking of replacing my Ironclad and the Dreadnought, with another Land Raider and Assault Terminator, giving more TH/SS and getting more benefit from Vulkan.

What do you think about that?



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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-05-11, 01:26 PM
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Sounds good. One thing I will say is don't deep strike the speeders, as they want to be sitting back and shooting. And keep the dreads

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-06-11, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanner94ezekiel View Post
The list is fine, except that I would drop the 3 MM speeders for 2 typhoons. Maybe it's just personal preference. If you do keep those speeders (don't get the bikes or secong ironclad), then I would advise you to DS them rather than have them taken out T1.
Tbh, you could have done more with the vulkan aspect of this e.g. Take a MotF with some melta dreads in the HS section, but that's up to you.
Is there any particular reasons why I shouldn't get the bikes? I think for the Land Speeders, using Typhoon ML will bring more firepower, but also will reduce the their effectiveness against armor, and also don't benefit from Vulkan's chapter tactics.



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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-06-11, 12:14 PM
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I would go 2x tornado 'speeders with MM/HF and 2x typhoon speeders with TML/HB. And 2x flamer/MM Tax (also dropping the MB) instead of melta/ML. For a competitive list the ironclad in DP is not as solid a choice as a second rifleman. Also be sure to buy your LRR an MM. Your pred would likely do better as AC/LC and I don't favour the vindis here over simply two more AC/LC preds. Finally all termies should be TH/SS thus benefiting from Vulkan and besides they are better against nearly anything termies should fight. Think of it this way; 2x LC are valued at 30pts, TH/SS are valued at 45-60pts and Vulkan multiplies that. Why not have some free points?

I suggest dropping the scouts to pay for all the above.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-07-11, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonklaude View Post
I would go 2x tornado 'speeders with MM/HF and 2x typhoon speeders with TML/HB. And 2x flamer/MM Tax (also dropping the MB) instead of melta/ML. For a competitive list the ironclad in DP is not as solid a choice as a second rifleman. Also be sure to buy your LRR an MM. Your pred would likely do better as AC/LC and I don't favour the vindis here over simply two more AC/LC preds. Finally all termies should be TH/SS thus benefiting from Vulkan and besides they are better against nearly anything termies should fight. Think of it this way; 2x LC are valued at 30pts, TH/SS are valued at 45-60pts and Vulkan multiplies that. Why not have some free points?

I suggest dropping the scouts to pay for all the above.
I don't use TH/SS on all of my terminators, because if I face horde units, such as Orks or IG's, I lose the punch of the terminators because of the sheer number of the enemy. Because TH/SS's attacks is limited, it's killing power against horde units are greatly reduced. On the contrary, LC are better against horde units, but will not do much against MC or tanks.

I use Ironclad because I want that Ironclad, with Vulkan, to take the fight to the enemy. But after reviewing my list, I think that second dreadnoughts is much better, because Vulkan + terminators will struggle also against good CC units.

So, after reviewing your suggestions my army are as follows :

===============
HQ - 190 pts

Vulkan

Troops - 560 pts

Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x MM, 1 x PF, Rhino)
Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, Rhino)

Scout Squad (Sergeant Telion, 3 Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML)

Elite - 735 pts

Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Terminator Assault Squad (3 x LC, 2 TH/SS, Land Raider Crusader)

Fast Attack - 180 pts

Land Speeder (Typhoon ML, HB)
Land Speeder (Typhoon ML, HB)

Heavy Support - 335 points

Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator (TL LC)
===============

Any other suggestions?



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-07-11, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanner94ezekiel View Post
The list is fine, except that I would drop the 3 MM speeders for 2 typhoons. Maybe it's just personal preference. If you do keep those speeders (don't get the bikes or secong ironclad), then I would advise you to DS them rather than have them taken out T1.
Tbh, you could have done more with the vulkan aspect of this e.g. Take a MotF with some melta dreads in the HS section, but that's up to you.
2 typhoons is not a great idea. Personally I don't like them, but its not playing to the strenths of the salamanders. I would take speeders with heavy flamer and multimelta.

I play my speeders agressively and my speeders win me most of my games.

now some advice...

I would also think about 3x multimelta attack bikes. Well worth it.

I don't like telon. I'ed drop him like a stone. Just make sure you have a ML in the squad. Its nice to hjave an extra ML when you have 10+ raiders flying towards you.

Have you put a heavy flamer and melta gun on the iron clad? I would if you really want him. Personally... I have two iron clads and I don't use them competatively now. They are excellent, but I can't justify it unless they are sitting inside my two Lucius pattern drop pods. AC dreads are amazing, cheaper and will live longer than your sacrificial Iron clads.

I normally take a librarian behind my vindictions with null zone. It really upsets Grey Night players.

Also something for you to think about... In my 1500 point ultramarine list I have 7 multimeltas while you only have 2 in 2k. I think MM are the best antitank codex SM have adn yours are all TL. Get more MM in your list.

Its a matter of opinion, but i don't take tacticals with MM. It just they way I play them... I don't tend to want them within 12 inch of horrible things so I tend to take ML... but your choice.


Land raider... take extra armour. Take a MM.

Terminators.... I play 3 TH and 2 LC... I'm starting to think 5 TH is the way forward..... it is with your list.... MC TH!? Whhhhhhaaaat!

Any who.... I think your first list was better tbh.... your on the right track.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-07-11, 03:16 PM
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Much Latch says reflects my own experiences.

Riflemen are amazing. Take them over ironclads.

Take MM and EA on raiders.

In a Vulkan list a squad of 3x AB w. MM works well. My last list used 2x tornadoes and 3x AB w. MM and played nicely. I also like typhoons, but perhaps in a Vulkan list they make less sense. 2x2 tornadoes and 1x3 ABs might prove pretty good in FAST.

If you want a psyker to block GK spam, go for allies. Take the WH lord inquisitor with psychic hood. This is both superior to and cheaper than a librarian in that specialised role.

I would not field Telion or scouts in a Vulkan list. An MotF list, maybe.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-07-11, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latch View Post
2 typhoons is not a great idea. Personally I don't like them, but its not playing to the strenths of the salamanders. I would take speeders with heavy flamer and multimelta.

I play my speeders agressively and my speeders win me most of my games.

now some advice...

I would also think about 3x multimelta attack bikes. Well worth it.

I don't like telon. I'ed drop him like a stone. Just make sure you have a ML in the squad. Its nice to hjave an extra ML when you have 10+ raiders flying towards you.

Have you put a heavy flamer and melta gun on the iron clad? I would if you really want him. Personally... I have two iron clads and I don't use them competatively now. They are excellent, but I can't justify it unless they are sitting inside my two Lucius pattern drop pods. AC dreads are amazing, cheaper and will live longer than your sacrificial Iron clads.

I normally take a librarian behind my vindictions with null zone. It really upsets Grey Night players.

Also something for you to think about... In my 1500 point ultramarine list I have 7 multimeltas while you only have 2 in 2k. I think MM are the best antitank codex SM have adn yours are all TL. Get more MM in your list.

Its a matter of opinion, but i don't take tacticals with MM. It just they way I play them... I don't tend to want them within 12 inch of horrible things so I tend to take ML... but your choice.


Land raider... take extra armour. Take a MM.

Terminators.... I play 3 TH and 2 LC... I'm starting to think 5 TH is the way forward..... it is with your list.... MC TH!? Whhhhhhaaaat!

Any who.... I think your first list was better tbh.... your on the right track.
Thanks for your advice. I think I can change the Landspeeders into Bike with MM, if that's what you mean. But I don't think I can fit other MM. I agree though that Attack Bike with MM, on a Vulkan list, is superior than Typhoon ML's on Landspeeder. I would also agree to remove Telion, as he useless.

After removing Telion, I decided to add some PF to my Tactical, to give them some edge in CC.

So, after reviewing your advice, this is my latest army list :

HQ - 190 pts

Vulkan

Troops - 555 pts

Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, 1 x PF, Rhino)
Tactical Squad (8 x Bolter, 1 x Meltagun, 1 x ML, 1 x PF, Rhino)

Scout Squad (4 Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML)

Elite - 725 pts

Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Dreadnought (2 x TL AC)
Terminator Assault Squad (3 x LC, 2 x TH/SS, Land Raider Redeemer (EA, MM))


Fast Attack - 150 pts

3 x Attack Bike (MM)

Heavy Support - 335 points

Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator (TL LC)

There are still 55 points left, which I can use for HK Missiles, or EA's for Vindicators, Dreadnoughts, or Predators. Any suggestions? I can also use the remaining points to fit in an attack bike, but I think that's pretty useless.



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List

Last edited by ThunderHawk; 06-08-11 at 02:43 AM.
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