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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Default 1500pts SM Competitive List

Hello to all Heretics here, this is my second attempt at building an army. Please give me some advices and critics This time I am trying to build a good 1500 points army.

HQ (100 points)
Librarian (Gates of Infinity, Avenger)

Troops (605 points)
10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x MG, 1 x LC, Sergeant has PW, Razorback with LC/TL Plasma)
10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x FL, 1 x PC, Sergeant has PW, Rhino)
5 x Scout Squad (4 x Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML, Camo Cloaks, Sergeant has Melta Bomb)

Elites (460 points)
5 x Assault Terminator Squad (5 x TH, Land Raider w/ MM)

Heavy Support (335 points)
Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator w/ TL LC

Total points : 1500 points


A lot of suggestions will be greatly appreciated



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List

Last edited by ThunderHawk; 11-22-10 at 04:50 AM.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderHawk View Post
Hello to all Heretics here, this is my second attempt at building an army. Please give me some advices and critics This time I am trying to build a good 1500 points army.

HQ (100 points)
Librarian (Gates of Infinity, Avenger)
A solid choice.
Troops (605 points)
10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x MG, 1 x LC, Sergeant has PW, Razorback with LC/TL Plasma)Good tank hunting unit.

10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x FL, 1 x PC, Sergeant has PW, Rhino)
Good for infantry and even some heavy infantry.
5 x Scout Squad (4 x Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML, Camo Cloaks, Sergeant has Melta Bomb)
Telion would make this a better unit.
Elites (460 points)
5 x Assault Terminator Squad (5 x TH, Land Raider w/ MM)
Ah, and here is what I see potentially as an issue. This is nearly a third of your force in one unit. While units like this can potentially cause much destruction and heartbreak for your opponent, a single lucky shot early in the game will minimize their effectivness. I'm not saying take it out, but at least consider other possiblities too.
Heavy Support (335 points)
Vindicator
Vindicator
Great choice! This will be a huge focus for your opponent if they know what is good for them.
Predator w/ TL LC
Goot long range anti tank.

Total points : 1500 points


A lot of suggestions will be greatly appreciated
Instead of the LR with Terms, I might suggest some Sternguard, dreads or land speeders with some typhoon launchers.
Time for bed, I will think more on this later.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 06:22 AM
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[quote=ThunderHawk;794795]
Elites (460 points)
5 x Assault Terminator Squad (5 x TH, Land Raider w/ MM)

This is a unit that can dish out some serious damage if it can get within range and the LR withstands all of the firepower that will mainly be aimed at it in the beginning. but perhaps you should consider dropping some of the TH and going with lichtning claws instead.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderHawk View Post
Hello to all Heretics here, this is my second attempt at building an army. Please give me some advices and critics This time I am trying to build a good 1500 points army.

HQ (100 points)
Librarian (Gates of Infinity, Avenger)

Nice unit, maybe swap avenger for null zone.

Troops (605 points)
10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x MG, 1 x LC, Sergeant has PW, Razorback with LC/TL Plasma)

I would swap the LC for a ML, and give the razorback a TLLC.

10 x Tactical Squad (7 x Bolter, 1 x FL, 1 x PC, Sergeant has PW, Rhino)

I would swap the PC for a ML again. Swap the rhino for a razorback with TLAC, and use them as a dedicated anti-infantry

5 x Scout Squad (4 x Sniper Rifle, 1 x ML, Camo Cloaks, Sergeant has Melta Bomb)

These guys need Telion. Drop the camo cloaks and melta bombs for Telion.

Elites (460 points)
5 x Assault Terminator Squad (5 x TH, Land Raider w/ MM)

A great unit, but possibly a point sink and this level. They will work, but if your unlucky you will regret it. Think about spending the points elsewhere, like 2 Dreadnoughts with 2xTWAC each, and a sternguard squad with 3 CM and razorback with las/plas.

Heavy Support (335 points)
Vindicator
Vindicator
Predator w/ TL LC


Nice, only thing I would change is the predator. Give it HB sponsoons and maybe an additional storm bolter for 85/95 points.

Total points : 1500 points


A lot of suggestions will be greatly appreciated
Hope this helps mate.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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Instead of the LR with Terms, I might suggest some Sternguard, dreads or land speeders with some typhoon launchers.
Time for bed, I will think more on this later.
I agree, Terminators are huge point sink, but I intend to use them as dedicated close combat units, to prevent my other "shooty" units from being destroyed by other close combat units, such as Khorne Berzerkers or DP.

Any ideas how to fill the Terminator spot? I am thinking about using Sternguard with Razorback with 2 Rifleman Dreadnoughts, but using that setup will severely weaken my anti tank capabilities. I am not experienced with Fast Attack units such as Bikes and Speeders, so advices on them is greatly appreciated.

For Ultra111, why is ML better than LC or PC? I think for anti-tank duties LC will fare better than ML, because they have much better Strength and better AP. It's also useful to kill Terminator troops. As for PC, I think it is useful to deal with packs of infantry or some vehicles (speeders/transports).

ML has a very good use, it can be useful in both situation, but I think that LC/PC is better than ML in their own respective duties (LC for AT and PC for anti-infantry).

I am expecting Tau, and lascannon-toting Imperial Guard. My vindicators sometimes get blasted apart at first turn, because in my shop there are only 1 terrain that blocks line of sight. Any ideas how to counter these threats? Vindicators is a good unit, but with their 30" range they have some difficulties against Hammerheads/Broadside/any Lascannon.



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 11:53 PM
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get more terrain... why is there only one piece, get more... a good way to decide the number of pieces of terrain is
a. 3 +D3
b. have someone else set up terrain so that it is fair to both sides.

as far as your list goes.
when you are removing the LR, and terminators, you mention that you will be lacking in tank busting capabilities... there are two very simple answers to this,
1. is land speeders... 2-3 of them would do very nicely... against tau remember that their armor is only a 12 so a typhoon would excelll at taking down their armor support from a range.
2. attack bikes with multimeltas. these do wonderful in pairs zooming around the board

as far as your LC/ML/PC comments... a LC will pen the armor of those pesky broadside suits, and instakill them when they fail an ++ save, it will also instakill crisis battle suits in the same manner... a ML will have the same instakilling power that a LC has, but doesn't pen the armor of a broadside suit (it does pen the crisis suits). a plasma cannon will NOT instakill any type of suit... for this reason the ML outclasses the PC for suit hunting... as well as tank hunting which if i remember right is your claimed weakness if there is no land raider on the table... and as a note the ML is a FREE upgrade where the PC has a large cost.

remember that you are going up against the two shootiest armies out there.

removing the 450 points for the terminator squad would allow you to take...
2x rifleman dreads... 125pts ea.
and
2 x 2 attack bikes with multimeltas...

so per turn you are gaining 4 TL autocannon shots... as well as 4x multimelta shots...

at 1500 points that should more then take care of any armor that you are up against...
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-22-10, 11:56 PM
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BTW what do you mean when you say lascannon imperial guard?

tanks?
infantry?
transports?
artillery?

lascannon really doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to imp guard...
if you have no terrain and he is running 5 heavy weapons squads of lasscannons... or something like that it is a huge difference tactics wise then going up against a fleet of sentinels or Russ'...
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-10, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
get more terrain... why is there only one piece, get more... a good way to decide the number of pieces of terrain is
a. 3 +D3
b. have someone else set up terrain so that it is fair to both sides.
Yes, that is a very important thing, I will make sure that the terrain will be fairer at my next match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
as far as your list goes.
when you are removing the LR, and terminators, you mention that you will be lacking in tank busting capabilities... there are two very simple answers to this,
1. is land speeders... 2-3 of them would do very nicely... against tau remember that their armor is only a 12 so a typhoon would excelll at taking down their armor support from a range.
2. attack bikes with multimeltas. these do wonderful in pairs zooming around the board
I like the firepower of the land speeder and bikes, they possess good firepower and have good mobility, and their price tag is relatively low. But my concern is the toughness of those two units. Land Speeder only got 11 armor value, and in my opinion, it can get blasted apart by other tanks before it can fire. The range of Typhoon is 48", which can be easily reached by other tanks fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
as far as your LC/ML/PC comments... a LC will pen the armor of those pesky broadside suits, and instakill them when they fail an ++ save, it will also instakill crisis battle suits in the same manner... a ML will have the same instakilling power that a LC has, but doesn't pen the armor of a broadside suit (it does pen the crisis suits). a plasma cannon will NOT instakill any type of suit... for this reason the ML outclasses the PC for suit hunting... as well as tank hunting which if i remember right is your claimed weakness if there is no land raider on the table... and as a note the ML is a FREE upgrade where the PC has a large cost.
True, plasma cannon can't insta-kill both type of suits, but I created this list not to be tailored against Tau but to be used also against other armies. The reason I use PC instead of ML is because PC can insta-kill MEQ, while ML can't do that. But, after reviewing your opinion I agree that ML is much better than PC, because it can be used as transport opener too.

How about LC? For strict anti-tank duties (which I intended) I think LC is much better than ML.


Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
removing the 450 points for the terminator squad would allow you to take...
2x rifleman dreads... 125pts ea.
and
2 x 2 attack bikes with multimeltas...

so per turn you are gaining 4 TL autocannon shots... as well as 4x multimelta shots...

at 1500 points that should more then take care of any armor that you are up against...
I think you are right, but by switching Terminators/LR to TL AC Dreadnought, I lose a lot of close combat capabilities, which can be dangerous in some situation. If my opponent brings a lot of close combat units, my units will be in danger because there is no one to deal with them (example : Khorne Berzerkers charge).

Thanks for your suggestions, I will try to put up a second list based on your input!



Army Lists :
Need Advice : 2000 pts GK Army List

Old Army List : 2000 pts GK Army List
Old Army List : 2000 pts SM Vulkan List
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-10, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ThunderHawk View Post
How about LC? For strict anti-tank duties (which I intended) I think LC is much better than ML.
if you are trying for strict anti-tank duties, you are best off with a mobile multimelta... but lascannons work great as well. MM dont work on every single tank in the 40k universe, but remember that because they are ap 1 they can still destroy a vehicle such as the monolith, and they do better then lascannons at consistently popping land raiders.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 11-24-10, 05:05 PM
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So other folks have gone line item through your list and made suggestions, I'll take the approach of looking at your list as a whole.

From a purely competative standpoint, you're not putting out enough threats to really scare another competative list. Yes, the LR and Vindis will draw fire, but typically, drawing fire is not how you win... Right now, your list lynchpins on the termies... once they fall, you're pretty much screwed.

I would suggest doing one of two things... 1. Drop the termies and add in some more ranged threat - Dreads or Speeders. Or if you're really stuck on the Termiehammer then you should support it with 4 x 5 man tac squads in Razorbacks with upgraded guns (TL Las or LasPlas) - This will give you enough shooting to hang....

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