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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-17-10, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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Default 1750 SM pimp my bike

Hey!

A friend of mine has a lot of bikes he stopped to use so I was thinking maybe I'll give them a shot.

Here is what I got:

HQ
Captain bike, relic, storm shield, artificer armour 195
Command Squad bike 205
- Apothecary
- Thunder hammer/Shield/plasma gun 60
- Shield/plasma gun 30
- plasma gun/standard 30
- plasma gun 15

Librarian bike, Avenger, Null Zone 135

TROOPS
4 Bike 2xmelta, fist plus attack bike mm 210
4 Bike 2xmelta, fist plus attack bike mm 210
4 Bike 2xplasma gun, fist, combi-plasma 180
4 Bike 2xplasma gun, fist, combi-plasma 180

FAST
Land Speeder mm, typhoon 100
Land Speeder mm, typhoon 100
2x Attack bike multimelta 100

Basically my intention is to drive around enemy and try to shoot as much as I can and then maybe assault him (if necessary). Only problem I see with horde armies (tons of Orks, Gaunts).
Any comments?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-17-10, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniello_s View Post
Hey!

A friend of mine has a lot of bikes he stopped to use so I was thinking maybe I'll give them a shot.

Here is what I got:

HQ
Captain bike, relic, storm shield, artificer armour 195
Command Squad bike 205
- Apothecary
- Thunder hammer/Shield/plasma gun 60
- Shield/plasma gun 30
- plasma gun/standard 30
- plasma gun 15

Bike army's are the perfect excuse to take captains + command squads. Plasma spam is great, but I normally run meltas myself. A mixture or what you got is fine. I would drop the Librarian below though and add 2 more storm shields, and a PW or two.

Librarian bike, Avenger, Null Zone 135

See comment above.

TROOPS
4 Bike 2xmelta, fist plus attack bike mm 210
4 Bike 2xmelta, fist plus attack bike mm 210
4 Bike 2xplasma gun, fist, combi-plasma 180
4 Bike 2xplasma gun, fist, combi-plasma 180

Nice, I would drop the PF for PW though. Also, I would make them all meltas, fast bikes + meltas + MM attack bike = smoldering armour. Drop some of the fists.

FAST
Land Speeder mm, typhoon 100
Land Speeder mm, typhoon 100
2x Attack bike multimelta 100

I would drop the attack bikes in favour of another land speeder, maybe with HF/MM or typhoon again.

Basically my intention is to drive around enemy and try to shoot as much as I can and then maybe assault him (if necessary). Only problem I see with horde armies (tons of Orks, Gaunts).
Any comments?

Something like this...

HQ
Captain bike, relic, storm shield, artificer armour 195
Command Squad bike 295
- Apothecary
- Thunder hammer/Shield/plasma gun 60
- Shield/plasma gun/PW 45
- shield/plasma gun/ 30
- shield/plasma gun/PW 45

TROOPS
5 Bike 2xmelta, PW plus attack bike with mm - 225
5 Bike 2xmelta, PW plus attack bike with mm - 225
5 Bike 2xmelta, PW, plus attack bike with HB - 215
5 Bike 2xmelta, PW, plus attack bike with HB - 215

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder with HF/MM - 70
Land Speeder with HF/MM - 70

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator - 115
Vindicator - 115

total points - 1740

Added the vindicators due to your worry with horde armies.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-17-10, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
Something like this...

HQ
Captain – bike, relic, storm shield, artificer armour 195
Command Squad – bike 295
- Apothecary
- Thunder hammer/Shield/plasma gun 60
- Shield/plasma gun/PW 45
- shield/plasma gun/ 30
- shield/plasma gun/PW 45

Unit looks beautiful but costs fortune. Way too much in my opinion.

TROOPS
5 Bike – 2xmelta, PW plus attack bike with mm - 225
5 Bike – 2xmelta, PW plus attack bike with mm - 225
5 Bike – 2xmelta, PW, plus attack bike with HB - 215
5 Bike – 2xmelta, PW, plus attack bike with HB - 215

Power weapons are useless. S4 presents no threat. Fist at least can deal with MC and is a threat for enemy IC's due to Instant Death

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder with HF/MM - 70
Land Speeder with HF/MM - 70

[I]I was thinking about those variant but I'd say I'll stay with tornado ones and maybe I'll change MM for HF[/I]

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator - 115
Vindicator - 115

Nice idea. Adds some extra punch.


total points - 1740 I think it cost more than that - willing to check??? :p

Added the vindicators due to your worry with horde armies.
Dunno if lack of Librarian won't hurt so much. Psychic Hood is a must in most cases at the moment.

Considering your advices I would go this way:

HQ
Captain – bike, relic, storm shield 180
Command Squad – bike 205
Apothecary
Fist/Shield/plasma gun 55
Shield/plasma gun 30
plasma gun/meltabomb 20
plasma gun 15

Librarian – bike, Avenger, Null Zone 135

TROOPS
5 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 235
5 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 235
4 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 210


FAST
Land Speeder – mm, typhoon 100
Land Speeder – mm, typhoon 100

HEAVY
Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115

Last edited by daniello_s; 11-17-10 at 08:33 PM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-17-10, 09:21 PM
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That's a fair point, but I would still drop the librarian. Just too many points, and I don't think he will earn his points back really, those 135 poitns would be better of spent on a predator or another bike squad/upgrading the bike squads.

Also, add 2 storm shields to the bike squad at least.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-18-10, 01:31 PM
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at 1500 if you are running a command squad you should be decking them out... 4x storm shields, 4x special weapons, 4x close combat weapons... as a note, if you want anti vehicle... go with thunder hammers over power fists... they are just better for knocking vehicles off and do the same against MCs and ICs

i am for taking the librarian in the 1500+ list, and do not think that he is overpriced for what you are getting.

at >2k you should be running at least 4 troops choices... since you cannot combat squad them (and i don't recommend combat squading bikes anyway.)

i would put your 4th bike squad back in and drop the 2 land speeders until you go to a 2k list. 210points for the 6 wounds of the troop choice > 2 x av10 vehicles. and at 1500-1750 i would go with the 2x vindicators over the 2x land speeders

so your list would look a little more like...

HQ
Captain – bike, relic, storm shield 180
Command Squad – bike 360
Apothecary
Thunderhammer/Shield/plasma gun
Shield/plasma gun
Shield/plasma gun/meltabomb
Shield/plasma gun/meltabomb

Librarian – bike, Avenger, Null Zone 135

TROOPS
4 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 210
4 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 210
4 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 210
4 Bike – 2xmelta, fist, attack-bike – mm 210

HEAVY
Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115

total 1750

another way to open up some points for putting some goodies back on your captain would be to run one bike squad like this

4 Bike – 2xflamer, PF, plus attack bike with HB - 190

this would allow you to put artificer armor back on your captain, as well as putting melta bombs on him. if you were to do this i would recommend putting your librarian in this squad so that they can all burn any who stand in their way. when they get into close combat then you can ram the command squad down someones throat.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-18-10, 02:05 PM
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I wouldn't take the Command Squad at 1500pts. It's a hell of an investment. However, it does look decent. I'd happily settle for dropping the CSquads Storm Shields and leave it at that.

PFists ALWAYS over PWeapons.

Bike Libby is nice and cheap, and decent killing power.

Personally, I'm not sure in taking MM on Attack Bikes - you already have 8 Melta Shots like that. Taking a couple of MM/HF Land Speeders. They're fast enough, and threatening enough to take firepower away from the Bikes.

One personal opinion I have is that to always take at least 1 Tactical Squad with an RBack. A single LasPlas Razorback (or TLLas) is good to take the odd pot shot at an extreme range target - at 1500 it's better as there's less heavy armour, and those that do take them are hit hard when they lose it.

Good luck.



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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 08:38 AM
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I have a small concern about this forum sometimes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...Plasma spam is great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...drop the Librarian below though and add 2 more storm shields...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...I would drop the PF for PW though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
at 1500 if you are running a command squad you should be decking them out... 4x storm shields, 4x special weapons, 4x close combat weapons...
I think you guys just hit on every major pitfall of bikes! Do you have bikes armies or have you read a few forum posts, played different amries and tried to apply the same logic? A bike army has to be handled with care, it is not a battering ram that you charge into an army and expect to win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...Plasma spam is great...
I would agree... if this was still 4th edition! So let me get this straight you have just paid for a command squad (a sin in itself at this points level), put them on bikes and now you want to give them the option of killing themselves?!?! I am trying to think of a more expensive single wound model...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...drop the Librarian below though and add 2 more storm shields...
The librarian is worth his weight in gold. As pointed out the psychic hood is worth the librarians cost alone and then you and the force weapon and some extra powers. Also if you end up playing an army with lash and you don't have a librarian, then don't even bother getting your models out of the case. You will speed the entire game trying to get you models out terrain, rolling and failing difficult terrain tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra111 View Post
...I would drop the PF for PW though...
...No


Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
at 1500 if you are running a command squad you should be decking them out... 4x storm shields, 4x special weapons, 4x close combat weapons...
Command squads should not be run at this level, end of discussion.

+++Rant Ends+++

Daniello_s:

Captain = Perfect
Librarian = good (people have very different opinions of powers. me I prefer might of the ancients, and quickening, excellent for MC hunting!)
Command Squad = As you might of guessed from the above.. BAD. lose it altogether.
Troops = Good (Considering getting some footsloggers on the field to claim objects on top of buildings, etc.)
Fast Attack = Good (You could argue that they are the best units in the codex)
Heavy Support = Perfect (Bike armies will have a probably with horde armies, fact. vindi's mitigate the risk and open up a few options, including wiping out nob squads and scaring terminators)

Have a read of the tactica in my sig for some more help.

Help all this helps.


Tactica: Space Marine Bike Armies
SCRATCH BUILT TAU MANTA (WIP)
Adeptus Mechanicus Army (WIP)
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 01:16 PM
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sorry if i use my command squad as bait, and ram my army down their throat... yes i play a bike list. and at 1500 points i can have my command squad just absorb fire and still wipe the opponent off the board in 4 or less turns. just because there are multiple ways to play a bike list doesn't mean that everyone MUST play the exact way that you play.

and Plasma on a command squad is the best way to take plasma in your army. obviously you are one of the anti plasma people floating around. you have FNP it's the only unit in your army that can get FNP and take plasma to lower the chances even more of overheating and killing oneself. if you like plasma, and you are taking bikes, this is the only way to take it in your army. everything else is just a waste.

have you tried playing with a plasma command squad EVER??? i'm going to guess that if you have it was in a 2k-2500 game, and they got wiped relatively early on... or you rolled VERY poorly and killed yourself... in smaller games people get flat out scared of the command squad and what it is capable of, one of three things will happen...
1 they have some sort of answer to your command squad and decimate it
2 they waste precious turns shooting at your command squad which allows you to move into position with the rest of your army.
3 they ignore your command squad in which case they will regret it later when you make your strike with them.

what's funny about you not wanting to use a command squad at 1500 points is that i run a command squad in a 1000 point army list of all bikes... and what upgrades do they have? 4x plasma. how effective are they? extremely seeing as khan is thrown in with them, and a librarian... oh johnny is running terminators in a 1k list, that's nice here is 8 plasma shots, oh you passed all of your ++ saves please reroll them all as there is a null zone in effect. now i'm charging and wounding you on 3s...

i've put my command squad up against a fully decked squad of nob bikers(Win), lysander and a 10man TH/SS squad (epic WIN lysander was left with 2 wounds after one turn of combat), Howling banshee's are a freaking joke to any bike squad, as they need 6's to wound. the avatar is toast to the squad, numerous demon princes have fallen by their hand.

as far as the librarian goes, i run mine with null zone and Might of the ancients. seeing at half of quickening is negated by being mounted on a bike. (NO bike can be fleet seeing as you cannot run while on a bike) so it "just" makes your librarian I10... i see more effectiveness from null zone. might is just awesomeness especially when coupled with Khan acheiveing furious charge making your librarian str7 I5, ws5 on the charge.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
sorry if i use my command squad as bait, and ram my army down their throat... yes i play a bike list. and at 1500 points i can have my command squad just absorb fire and still wipe the opponent off the board in 4 or less turns. just because there are multiple ways to play a bike list doesn't mean that everyone MUST play the exact way that you play.
This is the age old arguement of forums, and the main derivation of "net lists". No I do not expect people to play the way that I do, but I wouldn't expect people to ignore the compensation offered by some units and upgrades with regards to a bike armies weaknesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
and Plasma on a command squad is the best way to take plasma in your army. obviously you are one of the anti plasma people floating around. you have FNP it's the only unit in your army that can get FNP and take plasma to lower the chances even more of overheating and killing oneself. if you like plasma, and you are taking bikes, this is the only way to take it in your army. everything else is just a waste.
I retract my earlier statement. Plasma on bikes in GENERAL is a bad idea. Plasma on command squad bikes not a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
what's funny about you not wanting to use a command squad at 1500 points is that i run a command squad in a 1000 point army list of all bikes... and what upgrades do they have? 4x plasma. how effective are they? extremely seeing as khan is thrown in with them, and a librarian... oh johnny is running terminators in a 1k list, that's nice here is 8 plasma shots, oh you passed all of your ++ saves please reroll them all as there is a null zone in effect. now i'm charging and wounding you on 3s...
I fail to see the logic of building an army around Khan a plasma command squad and a librarian. What do you have left over from 1000 points to spend on troops? At most 385? If you play with 385 points of space marine troops I am surprised you have won any games at all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by casca View Post
as far as the librarian goes, i run mine with null zone and Might of the ancients. seeing at half of quickening is negated by being mounted on a bike. (NO bike can be fleet seeing as you cannot run while on a bike) so it "just" makes your librarian I10... i see more effectiveness from null zone. might is just awesomeness especially when coupled with Khan acheiveing furious charge making your librarian str7 I5, ws5 on the charge.
This would be the differing uses of a librarian, mine can quite easily take out MC's. There is very little else in a bike army that can as effectively as him. Yes you don't get fleet but you are always going to go first. And if you are a single model going toe to toe with an MC you want to be going first!


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