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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-19-10, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tossidin View Post
He got banned? That's sad, but maybe it was needed. I actually agreed with much of what he said lol. Anyway, just thought I would put in some food for thought

1: A single raider, as mentioned, is not optimal. Reason being that it is "1" unit, and it suffers from the "death star syndrom". Sorry to say, but the easiest matches I have is vs. single land raiders. Easy to destroy with fast melta, and easy to ignore if you make a mistake with it.

2: The CC weapons on the assault squads are kinda waste, as someone mentioned. They won't really do much in this list.
Seriously??? The only way they are a "waste" is if you never get your RAS into CC. And if you are not getting them into CC that is a huge tactical error. The squads might be small, but PW/PF allow you to hack through high armored targets or instant kill things where as a bare bones unit (SGT with no PW/PF) will struggle to actually kill even a tac marine combat squad.
3: I would get speeders. Attack bikes are good, and easy to hide, but they can't deep strike, and they don't get a heavy flamer

4: I wouldn't have priests in a mech list like this. You pay 100+ points for eventual FNP on small squads that are still easy to get rid of, bar the fact they are in transports.
The squads might be small, but that FNP bubble keeps them alive that much longer so I feel that it is that much MORE essential to have in smaller unit lists like this.
So, my suggestion is to drop the LRC, the termis, TDA on libby (give him shield of Sanguinius + what you want) and the priests. You get what? around 600 points spared?
Now invest in 2 more preds, a couple speeders, and 1-2 assault squads in razorbacks. This way you get many more units on the table, and are able to threaten more effectively with more fast melta, and more preds.

Hope it is of some help
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tossidin View Post
1: A single raider, as mentioned, is not optimal. Reason being that it is "1" unit, and it suffers from the "death star syndrom". Sorry to say, but the easiest matches I have is vs. single land raiders. Easy to destroy with fast melta, and easy to ignore if you make a mistake with it.

Valid points, although I have the cover save from the Libby granted ots only 5+. The ability to deep strike/pop smoke leaves me with tsome interesting option alhtough risky. But thats what meltas do, kill tanks and those are risks I'm willing to take. Additionally i'm banking on a multitude of high priority targets to help spread the fire I take between units. If they're shooting at my LRC that leaves my Pred/Baals to roam free another turn.

2: The CC weapons on the assault squads are kinda waste, as someone mentioned. They won't really do much in this list.

I guess we'll agree to disagree This unit attacks at Int5 Str5 re-rolling hits and wounds thats should be enough to threaten some Mc's or other Elite Infantry on the board. (LC only pending psychic powers)

3: I would get speeders. Attack bikes are good, and easy to hide, but they can't deep strike, and they don't get a heavy flamer

I love speeders esp. the Typhoon/HB to keep my opponaant at kicking distance but i just didn't like the feel of them in this list

4: I wouldn't have priests in a mech list like this. You pay 100+ points for eventual FNP on small squads that are still easy to get rid of, bar the fact they are in transports.

Priests are a giant force multiplier PW at Str5/Int5 is a great prospect. That extra point of Intiative really helps, and the feel no pain is great for torrent of fire. This army is more taylored to engage the enemy at a distance and counter strike using multiple units and combined arms.

Hope it is of some help

Thanks a bunch for the feed back, I definately have some other options to consider.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 08:40 AM
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How did you make this diagram ?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 08:43 AM
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How did you make this diagram ?
Please don't hijack the thread, but it's done by just screen-shotting your tray in Vassal. Don't know what Vassal is? Google it. :D

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-20-10, 01:04 PM
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Hehe, good to see you apreciate it. I hope you wont be angry for me continuing then

"Valid points, although I have the cover save from the Libby granted ots only 5+. The ability to deep strike/pop smoke leaves me with tsome interesting option alhtough risky. But thats what meltas do, kill tanks and those are risks I'm willing to take. Additionally i'm banking on a multitude of high priority targets to help spread the fire I take between units. If they're shooting at my LRC that leaves my Pred/Baals to roam free another turn."

They wont be shooting at your LRC if its deep striking lol ;)
I see your intension, I used to think the same way actually. Thing is that a smart opponent wont waste all his lascannons at your raider if he feels more threatend by the razorbacks and predators. Of course, your LRC could grant them cover, but thing still is that what kills your raider are the suicide squads / speeders.

I can give you an example. I was at a tournament resently, and was paired up against a vilkan list with a land raider (I played wolves). The game was killpoints, and what happened was I shot and killed everything bar the land raider, which I immobilized with melta suicide, while feeding the terminators a razorback. Of course, my opponent used it badly, but it is an example of it not helping with target saturation. I have put up the bat rep on our forums (Strategikon 4. game 1) if your interested.

It's not that a land raider can't be used to good effect, but in the long run you are handicapping yourself with the "rock" syndrome.


"I guess we'll agree to disagree This unit attacks at Int5 Str5 re-rolling hits and wounds thats should be enough to threaten some Mc's or other Elite Infantry on the board. (LC only pending psychic powers)"

I was talking about the assault squads, not the terminators
They are scary indeed, but if all they kill is a 5 man unit of marines and a razorback, then I would dare say they are a waste. They are good vs. other deathstars, but if your opponent doesn't have one, yeah.


"I love speeders esp. the Typhoon/HB to keep my opponaant at kicking distance but i just didn't like the feel of them in this list"

They are fast, cheap, can deep strike and deliver some much needed melta without sacrificing an assault squad? How can't they fit the list? I agree the typhoon doesn't fit though, if thats what you mean. MM / HF ftw


"Priests are a giant force multiplier PW at Str5/Int5 is a great prospect. That extra point of Intiative really helps, and the feel no pain is great for torrent of fire. This army is more taylored to engage the enemy at a distance and counter strike using multiple units and combined arms."

Force multiplier indeed. They are good at what they do, but I still don't see why you would need them, as in your list, you have terminators to do the assaulting, and the assault squads to back them up. And you have enough torrent of fire with all the baals and razorbacks to remove enemy squads. This is why I say CC weapons are a little waste, as with priests. Ditching the CC weapons and the priests would net you another razorback, which I think you would benefit more from. If you then drop the raider you get even more units and firepower, which I explained in my last post. I just think it is a much better way to use a list like this.

Hope it is of some interest
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