1500 Doublewing - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 08:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Kaizer's Avatar
Kaizer's Flag is: Denmark
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 212
Reputation: 1
Default

I actually play dark angels, and here are my thoughts on your list, And as a note most of those I play agrees that I can use the ordinary marines wargear, so my apothecary grants FNP, my power of the machine spirit can shot better and my stormshields grant me a 3+ invu save always. I don't know if you are allowed this, but it makes alot of sense to those I play and myself. Its all about asking;)

I can see why the other guys are suggesting that you only use belial or sammael at a 1500 point game, and I will say that they are right.
I tried some time making a dual wing, but I always end up wanting more than 2000 pts worth of models, so I would try doing a mono list(deathwing;)) at this point lvl.

For you list I would skip sammael, just as the other guys say. He really aint worth his 205 points and the apoth for 3 models, aint worth it either. If you want him you should use more points on bikes. Maybe just doing a full unit of 6 bikes, instead of 2 of 3 just to make sure the apoth can save his points.

And further, the other apoth, for the termies, throw him away. You allready have a 2+ save, you dont really need FNP too. Most of the times people will just focus all their ap 1 or 2 at them, and they are gonna die just like any other terminator unit.

When I do deathwing terminator squads, I do them in 2 different ways. The first is a deep striking type of squad.
DS DW Squad
Sergeant(power weapon/stormbolter)
Terminator(powerfist/stormbolter)
Terminator(powerfist/stormbolter)
Terminator(stormshield/thunderhammer)
Terminator(powerfist/assaultcannon)

the point is that they DS down and shoot alot around, and the stormshield is there to take some ap 1 or 2 shots. Later they just start running around shooting and killing every stupid enough to get within 12".

My other kind of squads are focused on cc, and I usally put them in a crusader, I can see your not doing that but I will tell you about it any way;)
LC DW Squad
Sergeant(TLC)
Terminator(TLC)
Terminator(TLC)
Terminator(stormshield/thunderhammer)
Terminator(chainfist/heavy flamer)

If you want them to bring even more death, just give them the banner and an chap in terminator armour. Everything will die to this, everything!

And now for the ravenwing. This was actually my favorite when I started playing DA, but above 1000 points I had a hard time getting a pure ravenwing army to work. I think that you are making you squads to small, when you lose the first model with a melta gun It cost the same as the attack bike, you have to buy the extra 6 bikes if you want to buy any weapons for them. And I don't think you should count on 3 bikes making it to late game, If your oppenent gets the first turn you will have 6 bikes, 2 attack bikes and maybe sammael on the table, and even though they got the apoth, they will be gone very fast. I would suggest one full squad with 6 bikes, attackbike and landspeeder instead of 2 small, you can always combat squad them.

And for the last part about the attackbikes and landspeeders seem to be scoring no matter what, I would agree when looking at the RAW, but Im sure its not the RAI keeping in mind its a 4. ed codex and all.

That was alot I had to say Hope it helps you

"Baby, Im a heretic, and your a spineless imperalist"
Kaizer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 08:31 AM
Angel Sanguine
 
Tossidin's Avatar
Tossidin's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 642
Reputation: 3
Default

I didn't read your post all the way through (math class etc...) Kaizer, but I just wanted to mention that since Cruor99 is making this list for a tournament we are going to, he will surely not be allowed to use FNP apoth, better PoM and 3+ storm shields. Though it doesnt hurt to ask the organizer

As I have told you in person myself, I agree with dropping Sammael, you need more bodies on the table. You could have a librarian for pychic protection, but I don't know, as I am unfamiliar with the codex and how your army works, as I usually fight you chaos army
Tossidin is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cruor99's Avatar
Cruor99's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 592
Reputation: 1
Default

Kaizer, if you don't see the awesomeness of the old Apothecary, then I feel sorry for you As you said, terminators don't really need FNP, but the old apoth can just simply remove an unsaved wound that doesn't deal instant death. The bike apothecary can also be used on terminators, as long as they are within 6".

And it is a tournament, so obviously I will not be able to use Smurf-gear. And I find lightning claws work better (given, ofcourse, that I have the old apoth to soak up 1 unsaved ap1\2 wound) because the more hits you get at a higher (or equal) initiative, the less terminators will die overall, and at least you get to hit back at quite the force when it comes to the powerfists.

But I do agree on getting more bodies, but the bikes as they stand are a definite must. They are crucial for the army to work as synergetic as they are.
The thing about the bikes are, they leave me with alternative scoring units. They provide me with anti-tank options besides assault and assault cannons. I can either have the multi-melta come into play, or let the 3man bike squads do their thing, while I kind of hang back with the attack bikes. Keep in mind, that the idea of the doublewing is to have Deathwing go forth and deliver the hammer blow while the Ravenwing acts as the shaft of the army, guiding the hammer-head. Having them use their scout move to get up, grab cover, endure the first turn of shooting, then go off taking their designated (and fluffy) part of ambushing vehicles and consolidating the area around the massacre the Deathwing is putting forward.

If the attack bikes will be ruled as being able to score (I have contacted the arranger of the tournament about it.) I will definately employ this tactic without Sammael.

And I think you underestimate turbo-boosting on T4(5) bikes, my friend. Ravenwing bikers are quite durable.

The day you met me may have been the most life-changing day of your life. For me, it was simply tuesday.
Cruor99 is offline  
 
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cruor99's Avatar
Cruor99's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 592
Reputation: 1
Default

Added new list idea to OP.


And just got confirmation from tournament organizer that the Ravenwing Attack Bikes do indeed count as scoring without Sammael! Wohoo!

The day you met me may have been the most life-changing day of your life. For me, it was simply tuesday.

Last edited by Cruor99; 02-09-10 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Ravenwing Attack Bikes are scoring!
Cruor99 is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 10:43 AM
Angel Sanguine
 
Tossidin's Avatar
Tossidin's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 642
Reputation: 3
Default

I really like it, more termis is always a good thing.

It will be a pain to get rid of all those termis when you playtest it against me today. Best of luck, you will need it
Tossidin is offline  
post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cruor99's Avatar
Cruor99's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 592
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tossidin View Post
I really like it, more termis is always a good thing.

It will be a pain to get rid of all those termis when you playtest it against me today. Best of luck, you will need it
They're gonna have to be a proxy, though. Seing as you 'forgot' to mention you were heading over to the LGS earlier. And now I don't have time to pick them up -.-

The day you met me may have been the most life-changing day of your life. For me, it was simply tuesday.
Cruor99 is offline  
post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 11:39 AM
Angel Sanguine
 
Tossidin's Avatar
Tossidin's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 642
Reputation: 3
Default

You could have mentioned you needed more termis

I do though, have all the space hulk, various tactical and space wolves terminators you can borrow.
Hmmm, I should make a puppywing list just to annoy you xD

Edit: Can't you just use your chaos terminators?
Tossidin is offline  
post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cruor99's Avatar
Cruor99's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 592
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tossidin View Post
You could have mentioned you needed more termis

I do though, have all the space hulk, various tactical and space wolves terminators you can borrow.
Hmmm, I should make a puppywing list just to annoy you xD

Edit: Can't you just use your chaos terminators?
I didn't say I had to borrow from you, just proxy ;)



Any other comments on the new list? Anyone?

The day you met me may have been the most life-changing day of your life. For me, it was simply tuesday.
Cruor99 is offline  
post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 12:51 PM
Senior Member
 
FORTHELION's Avatar
FORTHELION's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: dundalk
Posts: 581
Reputation: 2
Default

I always field an ironclad dreadnought with my squad. i dunno how you are fixed for that points wise. but with 13 front armour its very hard to take down and after i turbo boost my ravenwing and deathwing assault the termies i move him up to deflect away some of the ap1 weapons from my termies. Just a thought but works for me.
FORTHELION is offline  
post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-09-10, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Cruor99's Avatar
Cruor99's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 592
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORTHELION View Post
I always field an ironclad dreadnought with my squad. i dunno how you are fixed for that points wise. but with 13 front armour its very hard to take down and after i turbo boost my ravenwing and deathwing assault the termies i move him up to deflect away some of the ap1 weapons from my termies. Just a thought but works for me.
We don't have ironclads in the dark angels chapter, mate
But i have considered a podded dread.

But i doubt that.

The day you met me may have been the most life-changing day of your life. For me, it was simply tuesday.
Cruor99 is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Army Lists > Space Marine Army Lists

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome