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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Default Anti Orks for this Weekend 2000

Okay, the whole list is anti ork, I play against someone running a pretty typical Mechanized ork list, with maybe a little higher than normal number of Nobz. Certainly he has quite a few looted wagons and Battle Wagons, enough to keep my lascannons busy for the entire game (at least 7 if you combine both types).

Troops 780

Tactical Squad 1
10 Marines, Plasma gun, Plasma Cannon, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 2
10 Marines, Plasma gun, Plasma Cannon, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 3
10 Marines, Plasma gun, Plasma Cannon, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 4
10 Marines, Plasma gun, Plasma Cannon, Combi Plasma

-----------------------------------
Fast Attack 420

Assault Squad 1
10 Marines, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs
Assault Squad 2
10 Marines, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs

OR

Elites 420

Sternguard Veteran Squad 1
8 Marines, Plasma Gun
Sternguard Veteran Squad 2
8 Marines, Plasma Gun
--------------------------------

HQ 300

Chapter Master
Model, Relic Blade, Combi-Melta, Hellfire Rounds, Jump Pack
Chaplain
Model, Jump Pack, Digital Weapons

Heavy Support 550

Devastator Squad 1
10 Marines, 2 Lascannon, 2 Plasma Cannon
Predator 1
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons
Predator 2
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons

Total 2050 (donít ask he couldnít live without 50 pts worth of extra war gear)

Right the basic plan is the same either way, the Tac and Devi Squads split into combat squads, the plasma cannons and lascannons hang back with the tanks and hold off the charge while protecting the vehicles, while the other half of the tac squads try to get in position to at best claim an objective, or at worst set up a crossfire and draw some troops away from my objectives while I fly an IC in at the end to contest his.

In the Assault Squad option, my Chaplain lead them in a counterstrike against the normal Boyz when they get close to the gunline, to try to tie up his objective claimers while the Master hunts the enemy ICs or backs up the other squad in assault.

If I go for the sternguard, both officers will hunt for special characters and vehicles while they head out with the plasma gun/combi plasma combat squad and keep suppressing fire on the orks. I figure they should deal some real damage by denying cover saves, and wounding on a 2+ with their special ammo. Finally when the orks try to storm the position, Iíll use them to deflect the assault by sticking em out in front where their above average attacks and Ld should keep them in the fight for at least a turn or so, especially if I can vector an IC in to help them out.

Either way, I only really plan on claiming objectives in his territory as a fluke, I mainly will try to contest them and keep a hold of my own and make a bid for the ones in the middle of the board.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 08:14 PM
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Your Sternguard are too naked for use, go with more assault marines. Or skip assault marines altogether, you're not going to out-assault an Ork, Anyway. I'd say go with some Assault Terminators, instead. They MIGHT survive a little while in a sea of green.
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 08:46 PM
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What I honestly think? Against mechanized orkses, I would bring a solid firebase, and then 20 TH/SS terminators. Or 10 TH/SS and 10 normal, with some AssCan thrown in. No assault marines. They are only as good as a 6 point ork boy on the charge.

Your call though, it's limited by what you own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
shocking, they do exactly what the codex says they do, who would of thought
lol.

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 09:42 PM
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If I were you I'd lose the Las Cannon Sponsons, just go with the tl Las, you can move and fire.

You need those points for Rhinos, especially if his Orks aren't slogging it. They'll be close too fast and you'll need to run away and engage them on your own terms.

I say go with the Sternguard and get them Rhinos also, the 2+ wounding is unreal.

So..... you need to find 210 points for six Rhinos...maybe my advice is a bit too demanding but that's what stands out.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 09:45 PM
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I had pretty good success against an ork player a couple of days ago by drop podding a squad behind his army as well as getting some assault marines into cc in the rear of his force. It forced him to spend a couple of turns dealing with them so by the time he finally managed to clean them all up he couldn't close with the rest of the army.

I used flamers because he was a horde force so against his mech force you could change one of your squads to carrying melta guns to drop pod and hopefully both take out one of his battlewagons as well as tie up some of his mobs in cc giving your gunline more time.
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-09, 10:07 PM
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No flamers against the Green Tide? Really? I can't get enough flamers against my Ork friend. I think you'll be better off with sheer volume of wounds than you would with the two near-guranteed wounds and possible self-melt. Doubly true with the combi-weapon where you're guranteed to only get one shot. Leave tankbusting to tankbusters.

On that topic, I'd personally change the PCans to Missile Launchers, both to free up some points and to add a bit more versatility. You can also use these extra points to buy something your army is lacking: TRANSPORT TRANSPORT TRANSPORT! You have a whole lot of footsloggers dedicated to "tankhunting." I can see this working for the Deva Squad and for the Predators if you snipe with them, but without razors, rhinos, or drop pods, your guys are gonna get run down by meks driving pickup trucks.

Another thing MLs will provide you with is a possible instakill on Nobs and Meganobs. Plasma, at S7, will instakill grots and not much else. Krak missiles, ant S8, will instagib nobs, deffkoptas, meks, and weirdboyz. They will penetrate anything but a battlewagon (and you've got 4 or 5 LasCannons even without making any changes, so you can get those as well if you're lucky). If you're just facing lots of boyz, you can't even shoot at them until their transports are dead anyway, so you might as well speed up the process.

If you're set on your tac guys running around busting tanks, give your Sergeants meltabombs.

I'd not recommend assault marines against Orks - getting stuck in against them is a matter of last resort, not first. Get the Sternguard, but replace the plasma guns with combi-weapons (prob. combi-flamers - again, let tankbusters tankbust - but if you're counting on them to wreck vehicles and leave Orks stranded, give them meltas. I assure you, the orks will get themselves within range in no time.). This will give you a lot more long-range fire support to thin the mobs BEFORE they hit your gunline like a big wave of green doom.

Are hellfire rounds really all that great on your Cap'n? Waste of points, IMO, considering what a CC god he is. His relic blade gives him S6 against rear armour, which is like krak grenades but three or four a turn, and if you're okay to strike at I1, I think you'd be better off just giving him a PFist for similar cost. Unless something goes seriously wrong, he should only get one round of shooting, and that round should be with his meltagun. Rapid firing units can't assault, and that's a problem for me.

I'd drop the chaplain and get more transports. Buy a Razor (possibly with T-L Las) for your Deva Squad and you'll have more tankbusting where it belongs: off the front lines. Speaking of which, less PCan and more ML or LasCan on your Devas. You've got a nice, solid wall of laser death headed for the transports. I don't trust blast weapons to bust tanks, because scatter sucks hard. Partial hits are at half strength, so the best you'll do is glance any trukks, but things heavier than that won't even feel it.


Sorry, big list of things, but things I think will help you out a lot when facing down a WAAAAGH!
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-22-09, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, since several comments reference adding completely new units, I am going to give this brief responce. I have 6 Razorbacks sitting in boxes, and realistically I cant get them built for this weekend so I am not going to even try. I have 6 Deathstorm Droppods from forge world, but we arent using them in the game, and he is a stickler for what you see is what you get. As such I have practically nil transport options and no room to augment that soon.

Also, I like plasma cannons for 2 reasons, the first being that I wound on a 2+ and the way the rules are written, there is NO chance of them overheating, now with the way wound alocation works in 5th ed if I do 2 wounds with no saves to a Nob squad, its the same as instant killing one of em, and in all honesty even with bad scatter, its hard to miss a whole mob of orks. Second, is they dont allow feel no pain, which is a pain in the ass with these particular orks.

The plasma weapons are modeled for the sake of their multipurpose effectiveness, they wont get the best play in this game, but I dont really have the ability to replace them, or paint new miniatures in time (we only use fully painted minis)

As for Terminators, in my opinion they tend not to last as long as advertised V orks or do enough damage in return for their points, that said, I have 50 of them 25 with 4 stormbolters and an Ass cannon per squad, 25 with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields. They are all painted.

Taking into account those restrictions and the suggestions I have been hearing, here is the updated list, I really would appreciate any additional feedback.

Troops 1170 pts
Tactical Squad 1
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 2
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 3
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 4
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 5
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Tactical Squad 6
10 Marines, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma

Elites 250

Sternguard Veterans 1
5 Marines
Sternguard Veterans 2
5 Marines

Fast Attack 120

Land Speeder Squadron
2 Models, Multi Meltas

HQ 145

Chapter Master
Model, Combi Melta, Hellfire Rounds

Heavy Support 390

Predator 1
Model, TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator 2
Model, TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons
Predator 3
Model, TL Lascannon, Lascannon Sponsons

So basically, an overall increase in firepower output at the complete expense of a counterstrike, we get vehicles mounting more lascannons and some melta shots to deal with the really heavy stuff (battle wagons et al) with the goal of eliminatign the need to shoot plasma at vehicles. Meanwhile, more plasma cannons that can be used to thin down the horde can be targeted independently, and the Sternguard stay in the list to give some 2+ wounding power and act as cleaver fodder along with the plasma gun squads when the orks get to close.

Again, any feedback would be very much appreciated


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-22-09, 05:53 AM
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So, you're saying that no matter what anyone tries to say, you can't and won't change your list.

Has the Infiltrate USR {NTGU}
>>Sqwerl's Tactical Squads<<

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-22-09, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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No, I am saying that the Infantry have limited options in terms of the guns they carry and that suggestions for transports are untennable. I explained my reasoning behind certain choices, but I would still appreciate a rebuttal or further thought, if you dont want to, fine I am not trying to force anyone to do anything or go out of my way to be rude.

For the record, in my collection I have available

90 Space Marines with bolters/plasma weapons
40 Assault Marines
20 Vanguard Veterans
30 Sternguard Veterans
15 Devestator marines carrying each of the weapons options besides plasma
50 Terminators
2 Command Squads (1 with meltas and power fists, 1 with power blades and plasma pistols)
4 Chaplains (1 Terminator, 2 Jump Pack, 1 Footslogger)
4 Librarians (Same as above)
Every IC modeled for my chapter
Commander units carrying basically every configuration that does not include a. Terminator armour (besides lysander) or b. a pistol of some type.
6 Predators (3 with all lascannons, 3 with AC and 2 HB)
8 Land Speeders (3 W melta, 3 with Ass Cannon/Heavy Bolter, 2 Typhoon)
2 Land Raiders
1 Land Raider Crusader
1 Land Raider Redeemer
6 Deathstorm Drop Pods (4 Assault Cannon, 2 Whirlwind)
3 Dreadnoughts (1 Ass Cannon/HB, 1 Plasma Cannon/Dread CCW, 1 TL Autocannon/Plasma Cannon)

these are all the options that I have painted to work with for this weekend, I would really like some suggestions, but I cannot feasibly use some of them, hence the previous post.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-22-09, 05:23 PM
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You're wrong about plasma cannons. Read the rules carefully for both Gets Hot! and for the plasma cannon. Every time you fire the weapon, you roll a die, and if it comes u a 1, the weapon doesn't fire and does overheat.

You also took the melee weapon off your captain, which seems ill-advised in the extreme.
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