Just for the record by above average we are talking at least 20 nobz with painboyz in all the squads all toting fists plus Maddok Grotznik and a pretty tooled up warboss.
@ Squirrel, I completely disagree with you on combat squads, if its annihilation they are useless, but otherwise they are a valuable tool to split fire, use heavy weapons effectively and not tie a squad to a single role, plus it doubles the amount of scoring units and enables marines to have both a gunline and a scoring element with a decent chance of success.
A crusader, does not however have deepstrike or a decent assault capability, and thus would not fulfill the role intentioned for that unit (as can be read in the plan under the list and in previous comments)
I did consider taking a chaplain, but I am fighting S8 or 10 weapons in this game from all the nobz and the warboss so I took a character who wouldnt die the first time he got hit and who had an instant kill vs the warboss and Grotsnik. Again, covered in the analysis.
The Predators are keeping the sponsons, its 60 pts for 2 more S9 lascannons, it would be more expensive to get another tank or a 2 lascannons in a devestator squad, so they are staying.
I also answered the why plasma question before, and its pretty simple,
1- 2+ to wound v all orks
2- as the MAJORITY of his army has feel no pain I need weapons that ignore it
3- Its not really an option aside from the plasma cannons which are the most effective v orks of any heavy weapon in my opinion because of the above.
Finally, while it is your right to say you think it is a bad anti ork list, the idea is to try to make it better, and that was useless. Thanks for your time, but next time, read the whole thread first.
First you calculated the stats well against the normal termis which if he turns a mob around to assault, I will be overjoyed.
And the thing is, I am fine with the fact that my Assault Terminators will lose because its several assault phases worth of an incredably powerful unit being held up, and just FYI the Termis will be fighting the Nobz w Claws, not the boyz, I am pretty confident that I can cut them down to size quick enough as the squads are actually pretty runty given the amount of pts sunk into the 30 mobs, battle wagons and 2 expensive ICs (looking at my ork dex thats at least 250 pts for HQ and 900 for Elites and 270 for Battlewagons, so hes playing around 580 pts worth of orks and they are all in transports to start the game) and that means right about 60 orks total, enough for 15 marines to tie up after at least 20 of them get killed by conservative shooting only with plasma weaponry (seeing as 1 plasma cannon shot can easily kill 5 boyz). So if I can tie up one of his Characters and a Nobz squad for a turn or 2 and do even kill the conservative number of nobz, its worth it.
By my math 1 Nob squad (w the warboss) vs my Termis works as follows, I am giving us the charge as I will probably be assaulting the a unit that just crawled out of a transport something else killed.
1st Painboy- 3 Attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, saved by armour
Nobz- 30 Attacks, 15 hits, 13 wounds, 5 wounds casalties, assuming no wasted wounds after allocation
Warboss- 4 Attacks, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 1 casualty
Lysander et al
Terminators- 30 Attacks, 15 Hits, 12 wounds, 12 Casualties
Lysander- 4 Attacks, 3 hits, 3 wounds, 3 casualties
taking instant death into accound, lysander as an eternal warrior should walk away with a wound as the only survivor of the conflict as all the nobz were instant killed and enough attacks got through to the warboss that whether he was in the unit, or fighting lysander, he should die all the same (fist of dorn instant kills him if he fights lysander)
For the pts thats a 90 pt warboss and about 450 pts of nobz dead vs 200 pts of terminators. Even if Lysander is killed too, its still only a 400 pt loss meaning the marines come out 140 pts ahead in the battle.
If they get the charge, the marines still kill alot of orks, just it works out to lysander fighting 3 nobz and the warboss the next turn ( I wont go through the math on it)
So all told, I am quite fine about either unit of Nobz fighting my terminators, because quite frankly by the end of it, there are few enough of them walking away to be engaged by my other units.
I normally hate taking terminators, but this is one time when they could be usefull.
I would really appreciate any responses to the questions at the bottom of my last post.
All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.