Anti Orks for this Weekend 2000 - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 05:50 AM
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terminators assaulting out of a LR are not a throw away, they are a counter punch. Also keep in mind that his opponent uses battle wagons and looted wagons. (all mobs are 20 or less) If a full tac squad of marines assault a weakened boys ork mob (19 or less) the marines should come out on top. (the orks shoul lose 6, and marines should lose 3) That would drop the boyz to 13 and need to take 3 fearless wounds (2 more dead) next round orks are gone. I personally use Thunderfire cannons, vindicators, and a LRR to eliminate orks.
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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Right taking into consideration several people's comments and the fact that everyone seems to think that me taking terminators is a great plan, here is the new list.

Troops 1055
Tactical Squad 1
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon, TP Homer
Razorback
Model
Tactical Squad 2
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Razorback
Model
Tactical Squad 3
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Tactical Squad 4
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Tactical Squad 5
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon

Elites 430
Terminator Squad 1
5 Marines, Assault Cannon
Terminator CC Squad 2
5 Marines, TH + SS

Fast Attack 120
Land Speeder Squadron
2x Model, Multi Melta

HQ 200
Darnath Lysander

Heavy Support 390
Predator 1
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons
Predator 2
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons

The basic plan, Razorbacks take the Srg/Special weapon Combat Squad and charge up the side of the line to go for his objectives and safely land the Standard Terminators to keep the orks from counterstriking with anything less than a significant commitment.

Meanwhile the Plasma Cannon Squads hold the gunline while the Other combat squads try advance to the middle of the field where they can hopefully do some damage to a couple transports and tie up Da Boyz. They will all die, but they should buy some time for the rest, especially with Lysander and his HQ to take on the big squad o Nobz that he uses to do most of the fighting. Hopefully killing 15 Marines, 5 Terminators, and my HQ will take at least 2 Turns. That should give my cannons enough time shelling the mobz that arent engaged to limit numbers pretty severely for the final charge as well as giving my predators (which will be in the corners of my deployment zone to shoot for side armour enough time to kill the wagonz (3 LC shots Vs SA 12 should mean 2 Penetrating hits, so in theory an immobilised or dead Wagon per turn and another from the speeders should limit their transport options pretty fast.

I decided to lose the Chapter master and his blast template in favor of Lysander for 3 main reasons even though he is expensive, 1st he can Instant kill either the warboss or MadDok Gutzmek with his hammer, 2nd he is an eternal warrior which means by himself he is almost as hard to kill as the squad he is with, 3rd Stubborn on all squads means my suicide dudes should survive a 2 turns cause they will almost certainly pass their Ld check necessitating another turn of CC to wipe em out. Also the MC Thunderhammer doesnt hurt when fighting ICs and Nobz.

So although he is expensive, I think hes worth it for this tactic.

Specific questions include-

Should I swap the normal Termi Squad for another CC squad to wade into the tide?
Would it be worth taking full squads to the objective (Rhino instead of razorback) at the price of weakening the gunline?
Do you think sacraficing the Tactical combat squads would buy me 1 turn or 2 turns against normal boyz mobs assuming we get the charge?
Lysander or another terminatored character (Chapter Master, Captain, Librarian, or Chaplain if so) ?


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 02:41 PM
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I would trade in the Assault Cannon Termies for a Land Raider. Deep Striking Terminators against Orks generally is just throw away, as they get assaulted. Keep the LR moving, and you'll get the counterpunch the TH/SS boys are best for.

I'd say Rhinos better than Razorbacks. With a H/K missile, they have the number of Looted Vehicles, and side shots on Battlewagons, with the ability to battle Taxi around better.
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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I dont really think land raiders are worth their pts, they tend to be much less effective than predators at MBT duty and they are ridiculously espensive for what you get. If I swapped for all TH SS termies, I wouldnt be deep striking any of them, and right now they are going to be deployed near combat squads equipped with teleport homers so I dont really think they are in a ton of danger. The point of that squad is denial anyway, not necissarily a counterpunch. The whole job of that unit is to keep the normal ork mobs off of a captured objective, or provide the Combat squads with an assault capable backup unit.

I can definitely put HK missiles on the Razirbacks though, so the anti tank ability isnt so much the issue as providing an extra heavy weapon to back up the objective claimers. Do you think that it would be worth pulling 2 full squads away from guarding my home objectives to go hunting for new ones.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 04:38 PM
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Lightening clawed termies in a LRC or LR Redeemer aren't a bad idea. You will always win initative against orks unless you have TH or Powerfists. Jump in with the LC and kill as many orks as you can. You would hit on 4 and wound on 4 but get to re-roll wounds. You can take out a good number of orks before they attack increasing your survivability. You will have to man up and take your 5+ against the PKs though. If you charge you have a MUCH better chance of surviving. If you take TH/SS you will go at initative 1 and 20-30 orks will take their shots at you before you get to thin the herd. Putting a MM on the Landraider can help you pop BWs. The side armor is only 12 and most people leave BW open-topped to get there Orks out quick for an assault.
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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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While I see the value in Lightning claw terminators the chances of wounding with them even with the reroll is 3/4 vs 5/6 and quite frankly, due to the lack of versatility, I have no models with lightning claws and I think the 2/3 chance of surviving a power weapon wound would more than make up for the 1 less attack overall especially since their only real job will be to tie up the nobz and I would much rather have an insta killing hit vs 2 wound models than an extra attack with a 1/2 chance of doing more damage. Also all the orks I am fighting are I 1 anyway so it wont hurt all that much with the striking order.

I also should point out that even if 30 orks shoot at me, 10 hit, 5 wound and all 5 statistically get saved my my armor so I am not actually all that worried about a turn of shooting from the orks.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triangulum View Post
Troops 1055
Tactical Squad 1
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon, TP Homer
Razorback
Model
Tactical Squad 2
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Razorback
Model
Tactical Squad 3
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Tactical Squad 4
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Tactical Squad 5
10 Marines, Plasma Gun, Combiplasma, Plasmacannon
Well, first off, you're going up against Orks, and you are taking a simply astounding amount of Plasma. I could understand this against Deathwing, but here it's semi-retarded. I'll suggest, again, Flamer, Missile, Powerfist+Combi-Melta. Also, Combat Squads hurt you more than they help, especially against hordes and assault, and razorbacks aren't worth their points, imo.

Elites 430
Terminator Squad 1
5 Marines, Assault Cannon
Terminator CC Squad 2
5 Marines, TH + SS
Land Raider Crusader would do a far better job than your Terminators from range, and the AssTerms would tarpit a horder or unit for a very long time if they got the charge.

Fast Attack 120
Land Speeder Squadron
2x Model, Multi Melta

HQ 200
Darnath Lysander
Honestly would rather see a Chaplain. Stubborn could hurt you or help you, it depends. Chaplain would help your AssTerms greatly, as well.

Heavy Support 390
Predator 1
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons
Predator 2
Model, TL Lascannon, Sponson Lascannons
Sponsons are useless.

The basic plan, Razorbacks take the Srg/Special weapon Combat Squad and charge up the side of the line to go for his objectives and safely land the Standard Terminators to keep the orks from counterstriking with anything less than a significant commitment.

Meanwhile the Plasma Cannon Squads hold the gunline while the Other combat squads try advance to the middle of the field where they can hopefully do some damage to a couple transports and tie up Da Boyz. They will all die, but they should buy some time for the rest, especially with Lysander and his HQ to take on the big squad o Nobz that he uses to do most of the fighting. Hopefully killing 15 Marines, 5 Terminators, and my HQ will take at least 2 Turns. That should give my cannons enough time shelling the mobz that arent engaged to limit numbers pretty severely for the final charge as well as giving my predators (which will be in the corners of my deployment zone to shoot for side armour enough time to kill the wagonz (3 LC shots Vs SA 12 should mean 2 Penetrating hits, so in theory an immobilised or dead Wagon per turn and another from the speeders should limit their transport options pretty fast.

I decided to lose the Chapter master and his blast template in favor of Lysander for 3 main reasons even though he is expensive, 1st he can Instant kill either the warboss or MadDok Gutzmek with his hammer, 2nd he is an eternal warrior which means by himself he is almost as hard to kill as the squad he is with, 3rd Stubborn on all squads means my suicide dudes should survive a 2 turns cause they will almost certainly pass their Ld check necessitating another turn of CC to wipe em out. Also the MC Thunderhammer doesnt hurt when fighting ICs and Nobz.
5 man combat squads will be wiped out, if not, they will simply serve as a shield to his squad from ranged fire till your assault phase, where they will win and consol towards you for another possibly easier assault.

So although he is expensive, I think hes worth it for this tactic.

Specific questions include-

Should I swap the normal Termi Squad for another CC squad to wade into the tide?
Would it be worth taking full squads to the objective (Rhino instead of razorback) at the price of weakening the gunline?
Do you think sacraficing the Tactical combat squads would buy me 1 turn or 2 turns against normal boyz mobs assuming we get the charge?
Lysander or another terminatored character (Chapter Master, Captain, Librarian, or Chaplain if so) ?
Not a very good anti-Ork list.

Has the Infiltrate USR {NTGU}
>>Sqwerl's Tactical Squads<<

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 07:35 PM
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Sqwerl, read the whole damn thread. A lot of your suggestions he can't do cause of WYSIWYG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
shocking, they do exactly what the codex says they do, who would of thought
lol.

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-23-09, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triangulum View Post
While I see the value in Lightning claw terminators the chances of wounding with them even with the reroll is 3/4 vs 5/6 and quite frankly, due to the lack of versatility, I have no models with lightning claws and I think the 2/3 chance of surviving a power weapon wound would more than make up for the 1 less attack overall especially since their only real job will be to tie up the nobz and I would much rather have an insta killing hit vs 2 wound models than an extra attack with a 1/2 chance of doing more damage. Also all the orks I am fighting are I 1 anyway so it wont hurt all that much with the striking order.

I also should point out that even if 30 orks shoot at me, 10 hit, 5 wound and all 5 statistically get saved my my armor so I am not actually all that worried about a turn of shooting from the orks.

It's not the shooting round I would be worried about, but the Assault Round that follows it. Even a standard 20 boy mob charging, I=3. Assume SGT with Powersword, 4 normal terms with PF. Sgt kills 1-2, give him 2 generously. 18 orks attacking. 4 attacks on the charge with 17 "normal" boys. 64 attacks. Hit with 32, Wound with 16. 3 wounds per Terminator. 50% chance for each terminator to die. Say you lose 2. 6 attacks back, hit with 3, kill with 3. 15 boys left, 4 attacks from the Nob, hit's two, kills 1.5. Be conservative, 1. Mob loses, 3 to 5 kills. Fearless, stays, you have 2 terminators left. A major victory points wise for the Ork.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-24-09, 01:23 AM
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He said he's looking at more than the average number of nobs. If nobs in battlewagons are a problem, you want the Str 8 for the instant death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella Cadente View Post
shocking, they do exactly what the codex says they do, who would of thought
lol.

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