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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Default BA/SM Allies

So, since getting into Skitarii, I have really enjoyed the army. I want to branch out into Cult Mechanicus, too, but for now (since I have tons of SM models) I am looking at allying in some Blood Angels (or possibly regular marines) to help out my Skitarii. I'm not looking for a tournament list, but I do prefer winning to losing, and it seems like the game shop nearest me is mildly competitive.

The army has issues, of which I think Space Marines or some variant thereof are very well suited to correct all three primary issues, so I am not looking at imperial guard or inquisitors or grey knights. The three main issues the army has are a lack of transports, a lack of survivable cc units, and a lack of psykers. I don't want to put a ton of points into these allies, but I'm open to options.

So, my original idea was to bring a Baal Strike Force that consisted of a Librarian on a bike as hq so I could bring bikes as my troops (get them into cc fast so things aren't shooting at more important units) and then some Death Company with jump packs as my elite choice, and fill out FA with drop pods or rhinos. Maybe a land raider if I have points. But, then I realized BA can't bring bikes as troops, so I moved on (though if I switch to another chapter I might do this).

My second thought also turned out to not work with BA, which was cc-geared scouts in land speeders as troops. But BA don't seem to get LS storms, either. Whoops.

So, now I'm torn between picking a chapter I like the idea of and one that actually works with my Skitarii. I really like the idea of a dreadnought librarian (or just Mephiston himself, dude is a badass) and some Death Company covering my Skitarii's terrible weakness. I also really like having army wide +1 strength and initiative on charges. I could make do with something like:

Libnought (or Librarian with a jump pack to go with DC)
2 squads of scouts, infiltrate up to just harass/entangle/slow whoever needs it (that bs 3 tho)
Death Company (presumably 10 man with 2 power swords; I have no idea how people think DC should be equipped, but I don't think I want fists since the Skitarii can cover anything a fist can do, but cheaper).
Drop pods to put Skitarii where they belong.

Or I could just drop the psyker altogether (seems like a lone psyker is fine sometimes but just gets denied consistently if your opponent has any psykers) and bring a chaplain to join the DC. I don't really know what I'm doing with SM, so any thoughts are appreciated.

EDIT: Something else to consider here is that while this would be a supplement to my Skitarii for now, I would almost definitely end up expanding this into a force of its own when I am happy with my Skitarii.

Last edited by Tyriks; 04-17-16 at 12:38 AM.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 02:26 AM
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How many points do the allies have to work with and what models do you have in your collection that you would like to see used?

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Models aren't really an issue, since I want to eventually expand this out. But I currently have (I think):
10 scouts, 10 tacticals, 10 death company, 5 assault marines, 5 assault terminators, 4 bikes, one dreadnought, one rhino, one land raider, one stormraven (stormwing? the little one, not the big one). Based on the people I've met so far at the FLGS, I would bet my opponents would be okay with me substituting units within reason since I am new and just don't have very much so far.

As for points, I'm open to anything. All of the games I have seen people playing were higher points than I could possibly field in Skitarii anyway. I guess as allies, 500-1000 would be reasonable.

So, having thought more about it, I think I'm asking too much. So, to focus in a little, I guess a better question would be what are my CC options with BA? Particularly in the elites slot. I think my troops are very likely to just be scouts to infiltrate up and be annoying, since that's cheaper than marines and I won't have to worry about transports. I know people praise the Death Company a lot, but also that they are pretty easy to kill with any kind of focused effort. I see people mentioning Sanguinary Priests (or is it Sanguinary Guard?) in lists but I have yet to see them in action.

Also, this is completely irrelevant, but Lemartes looks way too fucking good. I may need to find a spot for him (if only he was an HQ!) if I use DC just because I really like that model.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 03:52 AM
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So, to focus in a little, I guess a better question would be what are my CC options with BA? Particularly in the elites slot.
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I know people praise the Death Company a lot, but also that they are pretty easy to kill with any kind of focused effort. I see people mentioning Sanguinary Priests (or is it Sanguinary Guard?) in lists but I have yet to see them in action.
DC are the absolute best bang for your buck. SG are good but cost a bit much and as you've noticed, things get dead when too much attention gets focused on them. Unless you're coming up against a lot of specifically AP3 weaponry DC are typically more survivable because the same points cost nets more bodies and said bodies have FnP built in and not at the premium of taking a Sanguinary Priest to attach to the squad. Hammernators are basically the same from any Chapter, but the Fragioso is not to be underestimated. Dropping in T1 with the frag cannon/heavy flamer combo messes a lot of stuff up, two of them even more so.

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I think my troops are very likely to just be scouts to infiltrate up and be annoying, since that's cheaper than marines and I won't have to worry about transports.
If you ever want to change things up, the Flesh Tearers Detachment only requires one Troops selection AND we have a Troop Dreadnought in the form of Cassor from the Leviathan book.

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Also, this is completely irrelevant, but Lemartes looks way too fucking good. I may need to find a spot for him (if only he was an HQ!) if I use DC just because I really like that model.
I have the old metal one I use quite a lot...not as bad ass though. Ever check out the Strike Force Mortalis Formation? Chaplain, 3x DC squads, 2x DC Dreads, Stormraven, all kitted the way you like. If you do MSU you can keep it under 1k no problem.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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DC are the absolute best bang for your buck. SG are good but cost a bit much and as you've noticed, things get dead when too much attention gets focused on them. Unless you're coming up against a lot of specifically AP3 weaponry DC are typically more survivable because the same points cost nets more bodies and said bodies have FnP built in and not at the premium of taking a Sanguinary Priest to attach to the squad. Hammernators are basically the same from any Chapter, but the Fragioso is not to be underestimated. Dropping in T1 with the frag cannon/heavy flamer combo messes a lot of stuff up, two of them even more so.
I haven't been all that impressed by hammernators. They just cost so much. What's with BA assault terminators costing more but being cheaper to upgrade? That's weird. I think I like the look of SG more than DC but I can see what you're saying. Survivability is important, too, since my own CC units can't take any kind of hit.

I think when I looked at fragiosos before I didn't realize that the cannon was template. I remember being underwhelmed, which would make sense if it was just assault 2 s6 ap- but a template of that is way better!

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If you ever want to change things up, the Flesh Tearers Detachment only requires one Troops selection AND we have a Troop Dreadnought in the form of Cassor from the Leviathan book.
Does Cassor have to be Flesh Tearers? I like that initiative boost too much to pass on the BSF, I think. Also I'm not that into Flesh Tearers conceptually.

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I have the old metal one I use quite a lot...not as bad ass though.
Hm, yeah, his iron halo looks like Poseidon's crown.

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Ever check out the Strike Force Mortalis Formation? Chaplain, 3x DC squads, 2x DC Dreads, Stormraven, all kitted the way you like. If you do MSU you can keep it under 1k no problem.
That's from Exterminatus or Leviathan, right? I will definitely look into that.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 08:01 AM
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A bit off topic but

What's the difference between skitarii and cult mechanicus? Like why are they different and have two different codex's?

I am quite interested in starting a mechanicus force but I'm a little confused.

Cheers
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 10:00 AM
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A bit off topic but

What's the difference between skitarii and cult mechanicus? Like why are they different and have two different codex's?

I am quite interested in starting a mechanicus force but I'm a little confused.

Cheers
Technically they're two different institutions, the Skitarii essentially being the military arm of the Cult Mechanicus but not actually a part of it if I remember correctly, although it's a very sketchy excuse for charging you for two Codexes instead of one. Most people will bring Adeptus Mechanicus armies, which are a combination of Cult Mechanicus, Skitarii and Imperial Knights, some houses of which are sworn to Mars. Basically, in fluff, the Skitarii and the Cult Mechanicus and the Mecanicus-aligned Knights are all allies, not one army, but for some reason that's also been put into the tabletop in a somewhat arbitrary fashion.

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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From a tabletop perspective, the Skitarii are cheap and numerous, the mindless drones of the AdMech, whereas the Cult Mechanicus are more expensive and elite (at least, that's the idea, but the electropriests are neither cheap nor elite) to more represent the leaders or specialists of the AdMech. So, the basic Cult troop choice costs more than five times as much per model.

EDIT: But it's important to point out that while the Skitarii elite choices are really hit or miss, the Cult Mech elite choices are best described as miss or miss very, very badly. And since neither army actually has many choices, that means the Cult Mech have 4 viable unit choices (if you want to play anything but a punching bag army), two of which are the same unit with a different gun and one of which Skitarii can bring anyway through the starter set formation. So, I'm not that intrigued at the idea of investing into the Cult Mech all that much right now.

Last edited by Tyriks; 04-17-16 at 09:05 PM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-16, 10:42 PM
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I haven't been all that impressed by hammernators. They just cost so much.
Yeah, I also think they're just too slow to be in a BA army but we'll see how I'm chirping once we finally get the Strike Force treatment.

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What's with BA assault terminators costing more but being cheaper to upgrade? That's weird.
That's how it used to be in all the SM books. One day...

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I think I like the look of SG more than DC but I can see what you're saying. Survivability is important, too, since my own CC units can't take any kind of hit.
I love my SG squad, but I don't go a game without DC (been working on lists but haven't acted).

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I remember being underwhelmed, which would make sense if it was just assault 2 s6 ap- but a template of that is way better!
Yeah, and don't forget Rending! So great.

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Does Cassor have to be Flesh Tearers?
He is a Blood Angel option, but anyone gets taken anywhere really. I'll be making up a Moriar the Chosen one day and using his rules.

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That's from Exterminatus or Leviathan, right? I will definitely look into that.
All BA/FT Formations are from Exterminatus. The SFM is a lot of fun, and totally why I'm buying two more Dreadnoughts

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-18-16, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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I love my SG squad, but I don't go a game without DC (been working on lists but haven't acted).
I really want to make DC out of the SG models. I think that would look amazing. But, I probably won't, since they would cost a lot more and be more work that way. Maybe when I'm more confident as a hobbyist.

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All BA/FT Formations are from Exterminatus. The SFM is a lot of fun, and totally why I'm buying two more Dreadnoughts
I will definitely have to look into that book, then! I might test this out as a standalone force in a small game if I get the chance. Thanks for the help!
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