Night Ravens/Dawn Strikers 1500 points list - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-19-14, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Default Night Ravens/Dawn Strikers 1500 points list

This list showcases 2 of my own successor chapter creations. Night Ravens being a Raven Guard successor and Dawn Strikers being a Imperial Fist successor. I choose to polar opposite as to fit the "fluff" I've created about them in my head but also to complement each other on the battlefield. The primary detachment is the Night Ravens for an in your face assault style army and the allied detachment is the Dawn Strikers provide fire support from afar.

Night Ravens (Raven Guard Chapter Tactics) - Primary Detachment

HQ
Shrike - 185

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 195
-10 man squad, Meltagun, Combi-melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad - 200
-10 man squad, Plasma gun, Combi-plasma, Rhino

Scout Squad - 120
-10 man sqaud, CCW & BP, Teleport Homer

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 195
-10 man squad, 1x Flamer, Sgt. w/PS & Melta bombs

Assault Squad - 195
-10 man squad, 1x Flamer, Sgt. w/PS & Melta bombs

Dawn Strikers (Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics) - Allied Detachment

HQ
Master of the Forge - 90

TROOPS
Scout Squad - 140
-10 man squad, 10x Sniper Rifles & Camo Cloaks

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad - 180
-10 man squad, 4x Heavy Bolter

TOTAL - 1500

Here's my ideal game plan with this list. Shrike attaches to one of the ASM squads, gets them in close. The Scout Squad w/CCW & BP gets in close, use their locator beacon to deep strike the second ASM squad. The two Tactical Squads make use of the RG Chapter Tactics and get in close fast. All this happens while the MOTF supports the Scout Snipers and Devastator Squad for distance. I'll have to pick and choose my targets carefully but I want to get in the other army's face early and distrupt whatever game-plan they had, make them adjust to me.

I'm open to tweaking the upgrades and load-outs of the units listed above but I really want to stick with the core model/squad as these are the models I currently have. I have Shrike, 2x 10-man Tactical Squads, 2x Rhino/Razorbacks, 1x 10-man Scout Squad, 2x 10-man ASM Squads and 1x 10-man Devastator Squad. The MOTF and the 10-man Scout Snipers are the next things I'll be purchasing.

I have a few 750 & 1000 point lists I'm using to play with now but this 1500 is my goal for the army. Maybe an upgrade to 2000 points if it works out.

Tips, suggestions, opinions and constructive criticism welcome!
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-19-14, 08:58 PM
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Take x2 devie squads with x4 heavy bolters each. More firepower spread out. scout squads too maxed out imo, could make smaller and spend points on more fire support.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-19-14, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Straken's_Fist View Post
Take x2 devie squads with x4 heavy bolters each. More firepower spread out.
You think 2 Devastator Squads w/ 4x HB each will work better? What about the 5 extra SM in a Devastator Squad? Figured they help the 4x HB last longer. I do see your point with the extra Devastator Squad, more big guns.

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scout squads too maxed out imo, could make smaller and spend points on more fire support.
Which Scout Squad are you talking about, the CCW & BP one or the Sniper one?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-20-14, 12:29 AM
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Sorry I wrote that on my phone and didn't really have time to elaborate.

And actually forget what I said about the devastators, because you can only take x1 Heavy Support choice for an allied detachment so that would be illegal to take x2. You could however take a HB devastator for your primary, though RG are not known for long range support in their fluff and of course you wouldn't have bolter drill.
Yeah I think it's better to run Devastators in small squads. You don't really need x5 extra troops, because often they won't be firing due to Devies heavy weapons being long range and boltguns being short ranged. So you end up having x5 wasted marines.
Yeah, having ablative wounds is good if you have points to spare but x1 or x2 extra is the norm, to make a squad of x6 or x7. But for the most part I don't bother when running Havocs or Devies (I think it's more important to stick an extra man on Havoc squads due to leadership tests whilst it's less important to do it with loyalist SM as they obviously have ATSKNF). Honestly, you will be plopping them in a bolstered ruin so I wouldn't bother and would keep them minimal size: More points for killy units :-)

I meant both scout squads: I have only run and have only seen run small squads of x5. x10 sniper rifles seems overkill, again you could pump points into more killy units if you ran x5. That said, 10 sniper shots per turn could be a serious pain in the ass. And you could always combat squad them to present x2 harassing units to the enemy rather than one large one.
How do you plan to use the other scout squad? I just don't see a role for a footslogging close combat orientated scout squad. With all the cheap ap4 weaponry in the game (think autocannons for 10pts a piece) I can't see them surviving long enough to actually charge, or if they do I am not sure if they will be any shape to fight...It's just a durability issue here. Again that could be rectified somewhat by halving them and adding a land speeder storm in the future if you wanted to add more models...This is all theoryhammer though so I could be completely wrong.

I think your core for your Night Ravens is a good setup: Shrike with assault squad infiltrating and the Rhino scouting rush. Playing to the RG tactics.

However, I think the Dawn Strikers do not make use of the IF tactics as well as they could, aside from the heavy bolter devies...Actually, just a thought here: Wouldn't lascannon or missile launcher devies be better because they get tank hunter? That seems like a massive boost to them against high AV targets. Heavy Bolter devies would still be good against heavy infantry though because of bolter drill. Depends what you want them to do out of the two: Tank hunting or infantry hunting.

Your fluff and concept is really good, just I think you could better execute it on the table: More long range options for the Dawn Strikers, more dakka. MOTF is a good choice though, he can shoot with your long range support units in the backfield.

Sadly, I can't really think of many alterations other than those presented above, as you cannot add any new units at the moment. But one thing I would definitely do is make the sniper scouts Night Ravens and the bolt pistol CCW scouts Dawn Strikers: This is because bolt pistols make use of bolter drill and would make them more effective as Dawn Strikers.
I'd also think about only buying x5 scout snipers and using the saved money to buy a land speeder storm for your assault scouts (who you also reduce to x5). This will give you pts to spend on maybe upgrading the devies to missile launchers (possibly with a flakk or two thrown in) to make a tank hunting unit that can also deal with fliers in a pinch if you go with flakk.

SF
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-20-14, 02:04 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, first let's cover the Devastator Squad. I really do prefer to keep them in the Dawn Striker allied detachment for two reasons, one it keeps with the fluff and two I get to paint them in my new color scheme.

Now as for the squad number I see your point on limiting it to 6-7 max, save those extra points saved on the 3-4 SM for other options. As for them being anti-tank vs. anti-infantry I guess it comes down to what my army is lacking overall. It's about Heavy Bolters vs. Missile Launchers/Lascannons, as both benefit from the IF chapter tactics just in different ways.

Onto the Scout Squads. I don't have any experience feilding them as Snipers Scouts but a 5-man would be good to start out with and if they work out I can always add another 5-man squad. Guess I comes down to how effective they are.

My idea for the Scout Squad w/CCW & BP was to have them infiltrate and just cause problems for the enemies. Probably not the best tactical use of them or their points but if they were to be ignored by the enemy they could act a distraction. Maybe locking a unit in close combat while my Rhinos and other units advance. Might be grasping at straws on this one...I have the models ready to play so maybe I'm just trying to put a round peg in a square hole with them,

Swapping the Scout Squads as you say makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out. The Snipers make better use of the RG tactics, while the Scouts w/CCW & BP make better use of the IF tactics. Somewhat "anti-fluff" but much better that way. Maybe I can paint my scouts in a, for lack of a better term, generic scout scheme. Stick with dark, dull colors that allow them to fade into the shadows, staying away from the purple of my Night Ravens and orange of my Dawn Strikers.

I really REALLY don't wanna purchase any more models at the moment. I've got enough to paint and put down enough money as it is. Getting a new rulebook, codex and restocking my paints wasn't cheap. But hey we all now 40K isn't a cheap hobby to start with!

FYI, I could theoryhammer all day long. Just another part of the game I love and these forums are perfect for it. I'll be tweaking my lists yet again tomorrow. Once I sleep on it and get a whole new set of ideas.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-21-14, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so I've had way to much free time this week. I've come up with a list that I think is nearly 100% there. I've got two options for both my primary detachment and allied detachment. Please bare with the length but it all makes sense (at least to me it does).

Night Ravens (Raven Guard Chapter Tactics) - Primary Detachment Option A


HQ
Shrike - 185

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 200
-10 man squad, Plasma gun, Combi-melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad - 200
-10 man squad, Plasma gun, Combi-plasma, Rhino

Scout Squad - 84
-6 man sqaud, 6x Sniper Rifles & Camo Cloaks

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 195
-10 man squad, 1x Flamer, Sgt. w/PS & Melta bombs

Assault Squad - 195
-10 man squad, 1x Flamer, Sgt. w/PS & Melta bombs

Night Ravens (Raven Guard Chapter Tactics) - Primary Detachment Option B


HQ
Shrike - 185

TROOPS
Tactical Squad - 200
-10 man squad, Plasma gun, Combi-melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad - 200
-10 man squad, Plasma gun, Combi-plasma, Rhino

Scout Squad - 84
-6 man sqaud, 6x Sniper Rifles & Camo Cloaks

ELITES
Vanguard Veterans - 220
-10 man squad, 10x Jump packs

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad - 200
-10 man squad, 2x Flamer, Sgt. w/PS & Melta bombs

Dawn Strikers (Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics) - Allied Detachment Option A

HQ
Master of the Forge - 110
-Conversion Beamer

TROOPS
Scout Squad - 120
-10 man sqaud, CCW & BP, Teleport Homer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad - 138
-6 man squad, 4x Heavy Bolter

Dawn Strikers (Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics) - Allied Detachment Option B

HQ
Master of the Forge - 110
-Conversion Beamer

TROOPS
Scout Squad - 120
-10 man sqaud, CCW & BP, Teleport Homer

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastator Squad - 178
-6 man squad, 2x Missile Launchers w/flakk, 2x Missile Launchers

Now the point total for my army varies from 1427 (option A-A combo) to 1497 (option B-B combo). This leaves me some room for what I might have missed or to make other adjustments. So how comes am I to a solid army?
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-23-14, 08:04 PM
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First can I just say, love the ideas! Think the fluff behind both is fantastic and the synergy between them has the potential to be devastating!

As to the lists, I am finding it really hard to choose between the two Night raven lists. But I think I am leaning more towards list B, 25pts extra to get effectively 4 attacks on the charge (plus 1 hammer of wrath) is a bargain.

As for the Dawn Strikers, as much as I would love to say A (heavy bolters are pretty cool), I've got to go for B. The list really does lack anti-air and long ranged anti-tank, something that is helped by the inclusion of this devastator squad. You are benefiting from tank hunter too which is a major bonus. However, these guys will get a fair amount of attention because of this. Hide in the ruins and these guys will do the rest. The Scout squad however seems very odd. I understand why they have been suggested, but in their currently state they are a unit built for combat with no way of getting there. You could infiltrate them or outflank I suppose, but I feel this goes against what you are trying to achieve, a detachment which acts as your anchor, keep the home ground secure while the rest of the army heads up the board. Also, the teleport homer only works on terminators, the locator beacon is what you really wanted.

My suggestion would be:
Scouts (x5)
-Snipers (x5)

Then with the remaining points, boost the Devastors up to 10.

Why? Good old "Combat squad" rule. By boosting them up to 10, you can split them into two 5 man units. Put the two flakk launchers together and the other two launchers in the other squad. This allows you to not only target two separate units, but also gives you the chance to fire at flyers with the flakk without wasting the other launchers. The extra bodies are used as extra wounds (or scrubs as I like to call them ). They take the hits so the launchers can keep on firing.

Alternatively, instead of snipers you could just do as you said, CCW and BP, with a meltabomb and use them as a cheap throw away unit which can hurt a vehicle/monstrous creature if need be. They will most likely die but meh, not as if they are the future of the chapter or anything :D
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-23-14, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
As to the lists, I am finding it really hard to choose between the two Night raven lists. But I think I am leaning more towards list B, 25pts extra to get effectively 4 attacks on the charge (plus 1 hammer of wrath) is a bargain.
That's my plan. The fact that I'm taking them as is, no upgrade, is great because it's the same models as a ASM squad. So I can use the models I already have. Having them be ASM or basic-VV is pretty easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
As for the Dawn Strikers, as much as I would love to say A (heavy bolters are pretty cool), I've got to go for B. The list really does lack anti-air and long ranged anti-tank, something that is helped by the inclusion of this devastator squad. You are benefiting from tank hunter too which is a major bonus. However, these guys will get a fair amount of attention because of this. Hide in the ruins and these guys will do the rest.
The idea of the Heavy Bolters plays on one part of the IF tactics where the ML play on the other. Just sucks that the Devastator Squad only comes with one ML model. I can always use a proxy. Still debating what heavy weapons to put on my 4 models for the Devastator Squad box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
The Scout squad however seems very odd. I understand why they have been suggested, but in their currently state they are a unit built for combat with no way of getting there. You could infiltrate them or outflank I suppose, but I feel this goes against what you are trying to achieve, a detachment which acts as your anchor, keep the home ground secure while the rest of the army heads up the board.
I guess I'm just forcing the issue with them. I have 10 Scout models nearly finished, still debating on what weapons to model them with. Do you see a role that they could fill?

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Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
Also, the teleport homer only works on terminators, the locator beacon is what you really wanted.
You are correct sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
My suggestion would be:
Scouts (x5)
-Snipers (x5)
You're speaking of my troops choice for my allied detachment? Because I already have Scout Snipers in my primary detachment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
Then with the remaining points, boost the Devastors up to 10.

Why? Good old "Combat squad" rule. By boosting them up to 10, you can split them into two 5 man units. Put the two flakk launchers together and the other two launchers in the other squad. This allows you to not only target two separate units, but also gives you the chance to fire at flyers with the flakk without wasting the other launchers. The extra bodies are used as extra wounds (or scrubs as I like to call them ). They take the hits so the launchers can keep on firing.
Love this idea! 2 squads, 2 heavy weapons and 3 meat shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow's Fury View Post
Alternatively, instead of snipers you could just do as you said, CCW and BP, with a meltabomb and use them as a cheap throw away unit which can hurt a vehicle/monstrous creature if need be. They will most likely die but meh, not as if they are the future of the chapter or anything :D
I'll probably just do that first. Play test it and see how it goes. Maybe since it's such a weak/strange tactic I'll be able to keep my enemy off balance.

More tinkering to do!
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