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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Default 1000pt Raven guard

Hello Heresy land,

I'm taking part in a campaign at the local and need a hand coming up with my list.

So far I have got the following:
Raven Guard
HQ
Librarian

Troops
Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Elites
Sternguard (x5)
-Combi-Plasma (x1)

Sternguard (x5)
-Combi-Plasma (x1)

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (x5)
-4x Missile Launchers with Flakk

Total: 655pts

I still have 345pts to play with. I have the following units at my disposal:
Jump pack for librarian
Librarian with Terminator Armour, Storm shield
Tactical Squad (x5) with Lascannon
Rhino (yes just the one sadly)
Ironclad dreadnought with 2x Heavy flamer
Centurion Devastators squad (x3) with 2x Grav-cannons and grav-amps, Twin-linked Lascannons, Omni-scope (Sgt.)
Assault squad (x10)
Vanguard vets (x5) (new in box, any suggestions?)
Bike Squad (x3)
Scout Bikers (x3) with grenade launchers
ADL (but the Quadgun has disappeared)

Due to time and money, I will not be able to get any more units before the game. I have no idea as to the loadout the chaos guy will use. I reckon there will be a heldrake or two, hence the Flakk devastators. Nothing I have will really save me from the turkey of death so hope to the dice gods its late or I'm able to take it down when it appears.

Any comments or ideas would be much appreciated!

Last edited by Shadow's Fury; 03-09-14 at 08:51 AM.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-08-14, 11:24 PM
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I think the best thing about Ravenguard Chapter Tactics is not the boons to the Assault Marine or Vanguard Veteran squads (Hammer of Wrath re-rolls and 12" movement 3D6 assault), it's the ability to scout Tactical Squads in Rhinos and Razorbacks into optimal firing position (i.e Deploy 12", Scout 12", move 6": Disembark plasma gun tacticals or grav gun tacticals and open fire).
Sadly, you only have 1 Rhino in which to do this and no other options to pull off this strategy...Probably not what you wanted to hear.

On the bright side, you can take advantage of the boons to jump packs, since you have a VV squad and your Assault Squad. So you may as well use them.
I'd put the jump pack on the Libby and put him with either the VV or ASM squad.

ASM loadout should probably be x2 flamers. The VV's you can put a couple of storm shields in the squad to soak up the low AP stuff, maybe add some melta bombs, or just leave them naked (perfectly acceptable to do this, as you get a unit only a bit more expensive than normal ASM but with more attacks). I would not recommend you sink a lot of points into them unless you are just going for a fluff build (RG love lightning claws), because they die like ordinary marines making them horribly points inefficient.

I'd also add that last tactical squad to make 3 scoring units, otherwise all your opponent has to do to win is kill your x2 x5 man squads.

I'd highly recommend using that lone Rhino for one of the sternguard squads so you can suicide scout with the x5 combi-plasma in your opponents face.

So I think x10 ASM, x5 VV, jump pack for Libby, Rhino for Sternies. Not sure if that would put you over 1000pts or not.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-09-14, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much for the fast response!
Yes, I realised the Rhino/razorback spam is the direction ravenguard could very easily go. I wanted to build up a core of infantry to pick and choose from before boosting up with transports (which will be my next purchase, one rhino is just ridiculous! ). I’m still quite new to space marines, having just returned to the Emperors light and seeking redemption, so still trying to get a feel for exactly want I want from my list. Would you recommend a razorbacks over Rhinos?

But back onto the list. Thanks for the comments. Realised I made a mistake and actually the sternguard only have a single combi-plasma, not 1 each. Reckon I could scrounge together some extras from elsewhere, but don’t reckon I have 10 of them. I like the idea of a the jump pack on the libby, I know it provides him no real benefit stats wise as opposed to a bike but feel it fits in with my list.
So, from your suggestions, here’s what I’m thinking:

List 1 1000pts
HQ – 105pts
Librarian
-Mastery Level 2
-Jump Pack

Troops – 250pts
Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Tactical Squad (x5)
-Lascannon

Elites – 290pts
Sternguard (x10)
-Combi-Plasma (x2)
-Meltabombs
-Rhino

Fast Attack – 185pts
Assault Squad (x10)
-2x Flamers
-Meltabombs

Heavy Support – 170pts
Devastator Squad (x5)
-4x Missile Launchers with Flakk


Librarian goes with the assault squad and move up using cover the best they can. He will go for telepathy, if he gets invisibility great, if not, no great loss.
Sternguard combat squads but remains in the single rhino, using its boosted scout move to fly up the board, both hop out and blast things to death.
Devastators set up in some ruins with the lascannon unit, (hopefully on the objective). Lascannon takes pot shots at transports. If manages to blow one up, missile launchers fire into the survivors. If there is a turkey, spray and pray.
The two meltagun squads I’m tempted to outflank (scouts after all gives outflank). With my really low scoring count this gives me some flexibility, they aren’t being blasted to pieces first turn or so and can come on either up the table to support the rest of the army, or if its going sour regroup with the backfield.


List 2 - 1000pts
HQ – 80pts
Librarian
-Jump Pack

Troops – 250pts
Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Tactical Squad (x5)
-Meltagun

Tactical Squad (x5)
-Lascannon

Elites – 400pts
Sternguard (x10)
-Combi-Plasma (x2)
-Rhino

Vanguard Vets (x5)
-Storm Shield (x1)
-Jump Packs (x5)

Fast Attack -100pts
Assault Squad (x5)
-2x Flamer

Heavy Support – 170pts
Devastator Squad (x5)
-4x Missile Launchers with Flakk

Similar sort of set up to the first, except libby goes with the vanguard unit and the assault squad acts as a suicide cover break, appearing behind their lines and hopefully causing some damage to a unit behind cover. If they somehow survive they can either go up close and personal or just keep the flames coming.


So which do you prefer? And be honest, do you actually think this could win or am I sort of just clutching at straws here. At the end of the day it is all fun and games, I'm sure I’ll have fun playing either list, just a little part of me does kind of want to win

*Edit: Forgot about the points needed to upgrade the vanguard vets to jump packs. Amended!

Last edited by Shadow's Fury; 03-09-14 at 10:14 AM.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-10-14, 06:41 PM
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Sorry for the late response...Have been busy.

Razorbacks vs Rhinos?
There is a lot to consider for both:
To be honest, I only ever used Razorbacks with Space Wolves back in 5th edition a few years ago, and haven't used them since. But I found them super-effective, but in a different role: Lascannon or lazplaz armed to slowly advance into the mid-field, where space wolves grey hunters dominated once dismebarked. In this way I used them as fire support platforms as well as transports. But with Ravenguard they are used in a very different role: Much more aggressively with the scout moves in your opponents face, effectively they are used like drop pods (because with the scout moves you reach enemy deployment zone turn 1) but armed with assault cannons to support your troops, who then disembark and plasma, grav gun or melta gun targets before they have to a chance to strike back. It's alpha striking but with Razorbacks instead of Drop Pods. With assault cannons and plasma you are getting a lot of shots that can deal with most units effectively (TEQ, MEQ, light vehicles, possibly even higher AV in a pinch if you luck out with rending shots with those assault cannons).

On the flip side, Razorbacks are relatively expensive compared to Rhinos, and have exactly the same poor armour as them. They can be one shotted quite easily, and if you are going second on the first turn if you are not careful with finding cover and BLOS they can be singled out and eliminated before they get to use those expensive armaments. Bang goes those extra points.
It is a risk but with careful positioning and the scout move this can be mitigated. Just be sensible and consider enemy weak points carefully, just like Corax taught :-).

Of course, you save points with Rhinos and they have the same durability AND you can fire plasma or melta out of x2 top hatches: You can also use these saved 40pts to pump into the rest of the army, so if you are taking x3 Rhinos that is 120pts saved (assuming you were going to take weapons upgrades on the Razorbacks). That in itself is a big bonus...But it's really a case of apples and oranges. I wouldn't say one is clearly better than the other. It depends on what else is in your list.

If you aren't sure on what to take, you can always magnetise a Rhino to be able to convert into a Razorback with ease.

I personally prefer the first list, because it has x10 assault marines with the libby as oppossed to only x5. I think x5 are not going to do much, as they are easy to isolate and destroy to be honest. I only run x5 assault marines when they have a drop pod, to basically drop in and flame the crap into stuff. It's only 95pts to do that, and is ridiculously good value. It doesn't really matter if they die either as even if they don't make their points back they will be a cheap distraction unit that people feel they have to deal with immediately...But when they are just footslogging, i'd always run at full strength, unless I was pulling infiltrate shenanigans with Shrike, because a small group (unless you are running multiples as MSUs units) is just easy to deal with.

Yeah maybe hold one tactical to outflank so it doesn't get wiped early on. Depends on who you are playing.

Your sternguard are going to be a high priority target, because they are going to be on your opponents deployment zone and you can't ignore that shit: Kraken shells and plasma will cause MEQ a real headache. But i'd be careful about disembarking immediately though, as it might be better to just fire plasma out the hatches and then stay in it. Then your opponent has to waste his shooting to pop your rhino before he gets to shoot at your sternguard. Will probably give your sternies more chance to survive another turn...That said, that might backfire and they may get wiped out, so it may just be better to go gung-ho and dismebark first turn and let rip, get stuck in and use those special bolter rounds before they die. Just consider this carefully.

I don't think it's a bad list. Just the obviously weakness is the lack of transports for your small MSU tactical squads. I'd be targeting them immediately, as once they are gone you are practically defeated unless you are doing Kill Points. But of course you have the sternguard scouting in-your-face tactic which will take the heat off them a little. Let me know how that particular tactic goes for you as it sounds amusing. lol

Don't worry so much about the turkeys of doom: Remember at this points level it is like a 1/5 of someones army, and wont be arriving until turn 2 or later. Plant those devvies in a ruin and do as much damage with the sternies as possible before it arrives, and get that assault squad with libby stuck into close combat with your opponents scoring units: Remember if you are in close combat fliers can't do jack to you and for every turn they aren't doing anything they are utterly wasted.

SF
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-10-14, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Not a problem my friend, I haven't seen the light of day today, was in before the sun rose and about to set off now, think they're trying to kill me!

Yes, the rhino/razorback conundrum is doing my head in! I am starting to lean towards the backs though, just for the extra fire support, but its those extra points that are getting me!

And yeah, I was feeling the first list more than the second. And yes, the outflank situation was going to be determined when I see the guys list. He's brand new at the shop so no one knows what he has. Almost exciting!

Sternguard were the finally push I needed to go into space marines. They just seemed too awesome both in fluff and gameplay. The rhino tactic was the first thing I saw when I noticed that combat squads could go into the same transport. It brings the annoyance factor of having three units to deal with for the price of two and allows me to target multiple units. I realise of course they have a big flashing neon light over their head but that's the charm of them, plus while he's shooting at them he's leaving the rest of the list alone, big help due to my small numbers. And sure, I'll post up the result, see what worked and what I need to work on.

Yeah, I know I shouldn't worry, its just irritating I didn't have more time to get stuff together. Hopefully get some units before the next round, transportation is required! I'm sorely tempted to get a chaplain with jump pack to stick in the vets or assault squad for later games. Stick him with a power fist or something to get rid of the poor excuse of an AP.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-11-14, 07:44 PM
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I never actually realised a Chaplain could replace his crappy ap4 (Crozius or whatever it is called) attack with a power fist. That's good to know. Whack a jump pack on him and squad up with an assault squad or a naked Vanguard Veterans squad and they become much more effective. Though I still think Chaplains are best for dedicated assault units like thundernator Termies...Trouble is, Assault Squads aren't actually that great at assault lol Vanguard Veterans though, 4 attacks each on the charge, re-rolling to hit, and the ability to take power weapons and the odd storm shield, that could work well with the RG chapter tactics.

If the expense of razorbacks are getting you down, by all means use rhinos: Infact, some of the lists I have been writing recently have replaced the razorbacks with rhinos so that I could use my other models like Vindicators and my Thunderfire cannon (This is my Salamanders primary detachment). I like to mix up lists a lot so I get to use all the models I like. As long as you are using the saved points to replace the razorbacks firepower there is no loss at all with using rhinos. Infact, it might work out better as you are not putting all your eggs in one basket and are spreading out the firepower (though scouting Razorbacks will be in perfect firing position, which is a major reason to use them over Rhinos when playing Raven Guard).

An easy way to fit in x2 more Rhinos with your first list would be to cut down the sternies to a x5 man squad (saves 110pts). Then with the remaining 40pts, give x2 tacticals squads sergeants a combi-weapon. Then with the remaining 20pts maybe give x2 more combi-weapons to the sternguard, to give them x4 combi-weapons in their 5-man squad. Or hell, use the models as a Command Squad and you save another 20pts to spend elsewhere...Then just use your lascannon tactical as a backfield camper.
Or you could buy a couple of drop pods. Raven Guard use drop pods a lot in the fluff to support their scouty units, and the two tactics should go together quite nicely (reading batreps they seem to work well).

You have a good core to work for sure, easy to expand on and you could take it in a lot of directions. Play the campaign and see how it goes, and let me know.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-12-14, 02:41 PM
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Just want to comment here (not hi-jacking the post at all) but this has been a great read. I'm diving back into 40k after a 4-5 year break and love Raven Guard tactics and play style. I'm currently working on new army lists and have gotten tons of great ideas from this thread. I'll be starting my own thread soon but will continue to keep an eye out here.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 03-16-14, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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I was able to try out the first list on Friday against two opponents, Chaos and then a doubles game against two Tau players with another space marine ally.

The chaos player plumped for a very interesting list. Can't remember the full details of his list (still nursing a headache from yesterdays festivities during the 6 Nations) but when something along the lines of:
Chaos Lord with Mark of nurgle
Dark Apostle
5 Nurgle Terminators
10 Chaos space marines
-Rhino
6-8 plague marines
3 Obliterators
ADL

Don't think there was much else. Wasn't exactly what I expected if I'm honest. Played the scouring, and I ended up tabling him by the end of Turn 5.

Sternguard unit provided a fantastic distraction,split firing between the both the CSM and Plague marines, but could not withstand the assault cannons of the oblits (rending with almost every shot). But that was it, without more units up the board to support them they dropped like flies. If running this tactic I need more units up with them.
Librarian and his unit were absolute beasts, rolling invisibility and Shriek. Once they got toe to toe with the Marines, they just slaughtered them. The libby was able to take down the Lord (somehow!) but fell to a smack in the face from the apostle.
Devastors were wasted points, they got a couple of turns of shooting and missed with everything. Quite clearly they had been on the sauce too!

Against the Tau however, that was a different story! Lost 7 - 12 in another scouring match. They got both the 4 point and the two 3 point objectives in their deployment zone, so all they had to do was sit there and let us come to them. As you can see however, we were still able to hold our ground a bit! Relying on our first blood, line breaker and slay the warlord. Sternguard were able to cause their main gun line to break, but they regrouped and blasted them away. Assault marines happy slicing up pathfinders but quickly died after the appearance of the riptides. Devastators were finally starting to find their mark, but a deepstriking commander and his fusion blaster buddies put a stop to that.

Overall I am quite happy with the outcome of the list. I really like the sternguard unit, but feel that splitting them into two is causing them more problems than it solves. The devastators have been disappointing, the dice gods seemed to frown upon them. The assault marines did far better than I expected, taking a fair amount of punishment. The Hammer of Wrath with re-rolls was damn awesome, guaranteeing at least 4 dead models both games during every charge. The libby has its uses, but still unclear if he is better than a chappy. He is greater flexibility, but lacks reliability. He perilled in both games, had shriek miss or denied (by tau!!!) and did not provide much when in assault. He got the unit in assault in the first game however with invisibility, so perhaps thats more his role, the helping hand.
Tactical squads did as I expected, held the ground well. Outflanking was useful in the second game, putting pressure on the Tau from an unexpected angle and giving us line breaker (the meltagun guy tanked everything that was thrown at him, even surviving a fusion blaster shot by going to ground, he has been promoted ).

I'll keep tinkering, see what I can come up with. The games have given me an interesting idea for a 1.5k list which I might post up later.

@Straken's_Fist
You can swap the bolt pistol of the chappy for a powerfist. It then says he can take items from the wargear list, saying he can "swap his bolt pistol or melee weapon for one of the following". I read that as he can get rid of it entirely, but I could be wrong. If he can't, with both powerfist and the crozius he should be able to deal with the majority of enemies, going AP4 for GeQ and then powerfist for everything else.
I think I'm going to go a bit of both, rhino and razor back, get the best of both worlds depending on the units role.

And thank you very much for all your help and advice!
@Noxnoctis22
Nice to see another RG player around the place (or the shadows). Didn't think you were hi-jacking at all. Been looking at what you have been posting up too, very interested to see how you get on! We Raven guard need to stick together
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