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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-12-13, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Default Space Marine list composition against MEQ / Bikes

Hi guys and girls.

I'm after some advice regarding army composition for my tale of gamers campaign i'm running with a few friends. I chose to add more marines to my Iron Lords chapter, while my friends decided to start Grey Knights and Ravenwing. It's a pretty intense all power armour affair.

I lost the last few games due to damned jinx and 2+ armour saves! I want some opinions and feedback regarding my updated 2000pt list now that we can use (We started with 1000pts, then added 500pts more per few months).

Here is my 1500pt list that i've been using!

Chaplain: Power fist, Jump Pack and Digital Weapons

10 Tactical Marines: Missile launcher, flamer, Sergeant with Power fist
Rhino: Basic:

10 Tactical Marines: Lascannon, plasma gun, Sergeant with Storm Bolter and Power fist
Razorback: Twin linked heavy bolter

5 Tactical Marines: Melta, Sergeant with Power weapon
Razorback: Lascannon/Plasma

10 Assault Marines: 2 Flamers, Sergeant with Plasma Pistol and Power fist

Predator: HB Sponsons and extra armour
Predator: HB Sponsons and extra armour

Centurion Devastator Squad: Grav Amps, Missile Launchers and Omniscope.

1490pts.

I compiled a list of notes over the last few games of pros and cons:

Pros:

- Sheer weight of numbers and sheer weight of firepower means enough dice are thrown at models to keep the armour of my enemies being thinned slowly but surely.
- High volume of models means that I technically have outnumbered my enemies a fair amount, and this definitely has helped.
- Grav weapons have been found to be exceptional. I am integrating more of these weapons wherever I can.

Cons:

- Lascannons are crap! They need to be at least twin linked, if not put in devastator squads where enough of them should make damage. On their own they never hit! (Sods law!)
- Not enough weapons cause no armour save against my enemies. The grav cannons on the centurions has been pivotal in the last few games, but this needs to be adjusted.
- My friends use Sammael and Draigo in their respective lists, and neither have been laid low. My army has a big lack of named characters to add into the army to add real clout to it.

Now looking forward, I am proposing the following changes, and this is where I want peoples feedback on my changes. So here are my possible changes to my list above:

- Remove the chaplain and assault marines and replace with Assault Terminators with hammers and storm shields. These should hold up better against their weaponry! Include a new character to lead the army (read on for ideas)
- Removing the las/plas turret on the razorback with a twin linked lascannon, and upgrading the hb turret on the second razorback with a assault cannon (the rending should help!)

As for the next 500pts addition, here are my options!

Devastator squad: 4 plasma cannons (Seriously adds some big AP2 plates to throw around to disrupt enemy movements and get them thinking twice about bunching up in groups)
Vindicator: Nothing like a big 5" template to drop on a squad, should mess up some stuff!
Contemptor Dreadnought: Switch out the two predators for this with Kheres assault cannons and a cyclone launcher. Hopefully the rending shots should be suitable (And it's a relative like for like switch)
Master of the Forge: Keep this guy at the back with a conversion beamer, dropping some serious power around the battlefield, should hopefully keep things at bay, even with it's high strength when they aren't so far away that it gets AP2.
Venerable Dreadnought: Armed with missile launchers and a plasma cannon.
Predator Executioner: This beast has a 3 shot plasma destroyer turret, that should really help massively to break up enemy formations with the turret!
Sternguard: I may be able to get the vengeance rounds in for the AP3 against the bikes, but the 2+ to wound may help with sheer weight of rolls!

If the master of the forge and contemptor dreadnought are substituted in, of the other 5 I think 3 of them could be put into the army no trouble within the points.

What would you guys do?

Looking forward to your feedback!

Regards
Joe
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-13-13, 10:55 PM
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I'm forced to suggest Riflemen. They're just generally exceptional.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-13-13, 10:56 PM
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Pedro and Sternguard would be a good add on. Not sure if your wanting or can do named characters. Even if you can't take Pedro, Sternguard are still a strong unit to have.

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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-14-13, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonklaude View Post
I'm forced to suggest Riflemen. They're just generally exceptional.
Sorry, I meant to say more but then noticed I was running late for an appointment! Where your list is strong is as you say plenty of bodies. Where it seems weak you correctly pick as weight of fire. If fliers are part of your meta, then there too. Your thread title seemed to suggest this was going to be against MEQ and Bikes. With that in mind -

I agree you need to drop the Chaplain and the Assault Marines.
TH/SS termies are of course incredible. But they aren't necessarily what you need against bikes or MEQ, or armour that can stand off. If you want to delve into allies I would suggest exploring IG for plasma vets in chimeras. Forgeworld has some wonderful IG figures.

If not, one thing about MEQ is that it dislikes plasma. I think I would go with 2x rhinos and drop the half-squad altogether: and have 0x razorbacks - which aren't working for you. But then you might upgrade both squads to MM and plasma, and put combi-flamer on sgts. Or possibly downgrade them to ML and plasma with still combi-flamer on sgts. I would remove the power fists altogether and go with power swords.

For dealing with Bikes I suggest - as I did above - 2-3x Riflemen.
They give a good weight of fire that troubles most targets. Together with your preds I shouldn't then expect too much trouble from bikes.

Sternguard are good. Although I would advise against Pedro. I might say 1x squad with a rhino, all with combi-plas or with perhaps 1x combi-flamer on the sgt. The rhino of course lets them shoot out the hatch: I'm not sure there is a strong argument for trading up to a Razorback. Your SG are going to be decent against MEQ. 5 or 10 SG or any number in between would be fine.

A pred Excecutioner might be justified, but it would have something of a big 'Shoot me' sign on it. I think I would far rather see 3x Vendettas if using allies, or even 2x suicide-MM-speeders. Those should keep your opponent honest. You might add 1x AC/HB pred if points permit.

If grav weapons are working for you, adding a squad makes sense. I would suggest caution against adding Devastators, Venerable Dreads, or even in this particular list Vindis. I think you will be strongest where your opponent has no obvious single target to hit, and where you on the other hand have plenty of MEQ-killing plasma. With a great weight of AC fire for bikes. Certainly it would make no sense to add MotF. He's a target and the CB can sometimes underwhelm.

Last edited by vonklaude; 10-14-13 at 03:05 AM.
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-14-13, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Vonklaude, I have a few peices i'd like to bounce off you with your reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonklaude View Post

I agree you need to drop the Chaplain and the Assault Marines.
TH/SS termies are of course incredible. But they aren't necessarily what you need against bikes or MEQ, or armour that can stand off. If you want to delve into allies I would suggest exploring IG for plasma vets in chimeras. Forgeworld has some wonderful IG figures.
I must admit i'd like to stick within the Codex for now. I am planning on building a Vet Guard list at some point, but i'd like to keep it inside the codex

Quote:
If not, one thing about MEQ is that it dislikes plasma. I think I would go with 2x rhinos and drop the half-squad altogether: and have 0x razorbacks - which aren't working for you. But then you might upgrade both squads to MM and plasma, and put combi-flamer on sgts. Or possibly downgrade them to ML and plasma with still combi-flamer on sgts. I would remove the power fists altogether and go with power swords.
I agree about streamlining the sergeants and giving them Combi Flamers, that will be very helpful! As for weapons i'm thinking the addition of plasma cannons in the tacticals will help add more plasma around the army so that should help open up more and more areas which will make the enemy think twice about moving around me.

Quote:

For dealing with Bikes I suggest - as I did above - 2-3x Riflemen.
They give a good weight of fire that troubles most targets. Together with your preds I shouldn't then expect too much trouble from bikes.
I'm loving the idea of Riflemen dreads. For the sheer firepower they put out i think it's worth having one regardless. I can squeeze one of them in definitely!

Quote:
Sternguard are good. Although I would advise against Pedro. I might say 1x squad with a rhino, all with combi-plas or with perhaps 1x combi-flamer on the sgt. The rhino of course lets them shoot out the hatch: I'm not sure there is a strong argument for trading up to a Razorback. Your SG are going to be decent against MEQ. 5 or 10 SG or any number in between would be fine.
I'll be building more sternguard so I think they will definitely have combi plas / combi grav weapons to help add some serious punch to these guys. They will help with all comers so this may form the lynchpin of my revised list.

Quote:
A pred Excecutioner might be justified, but it would have something of a big 'Shoot me' sign on it. I think I would far rather see 3x Vendettas if using allies, or even 2x suicide-MM-speeders. Those should keep your opponent honest. You might add 1x AC/HB pred if points permit.
Here is some food for thought on this. I like the idea of the Executioner predator, and I do agree it may well paint large targets on it. However, considering i'm going all out on a lot of plasma throughout the entire army, this, in my opinion anyway, will cause a awful lot of headaches as pretty much every squad will have something that can cause a large amoutn of pain. This should create the 'no 1 obvious target to hit' scenario you discussed later in the reply

Quote:
Certainly it would make no sense to add MotF. He's a target and the CB can sometimes underwhelm.
This looking at it I do agree with however. I can see how it can be mercurial.. I'm thinking a chapter master for his orbital bombardment would even help tbh, and also give him front line combat ability too incase his unit get into a scrape!

What are your replied thoughts?

Btw: This is exactly the type of feedback I was after, so please have some reputation for your post!
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 10-21-13, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobrakai View Post
This looking at it I do agree with however. I can see how it can be mercurial.. I'm thinking a chapter master for his orbital bombardment would even help tbh, and also give him front line combat ability too in case his unit get into a scrape!

What are your replied thoughts?
I do feel the Chapter Master bombardment is a bit weak for the points. Libby is the go to character for VSM. For a second character I would suggest a captain with a modest bit of bling. A power sword at least. Captains are good for stiffening the troops.
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