BA/SW Dramatic Warhost -- Could it possibly work? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-26-13, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Default BA/SW Dramatic Warhost -- Could it possibly work?

This is an idea I've bounced around alot in the last six months or so. I wanted something with the really dramatic, 'Cinematic' Space Marine feel... 2 dozen space marines worth as much as an army of the other guys, etc etc. The idea was something wild and crazy, a Norse-style themed army that was meant as a destroyer host... rushing forward, killing everything.

There's a few caveats with this force. Things I already know.

1. Nothing scores in the army. I know that. It means I can't win a take and hold... basically it means this army pretty much needs to slaughter and table. So yeah, I'm kind of asking if that's a possibility.

2. I'm vastly outnumbered. Thoughts about that?

3. Is it tactically feasible to be competitive, at any level?


Primary Detachment - Blood Angels
Secondary Detachment - Space Wolves

Astaroth

Canis Wolfborn
+2 Wolves

Chaplain
+ Meltabombs

Chaplain
+ Meltabombs

Furioso Librarian Dreadnought
Force Axe, Wings of Sang, Blood Lance

Fenrisian Wolves
9 + Cyberwolf

Fenrisian Wolves
9 + Cyberwolf

Death Company
x5, Jump Packs

Death Company
x5, Jump Packs

Death Company
x5, Jump Packs

Death Company Dreadnought
Blood Talons, Magna Grapple, Searchlight

Death Company Dreadnought
Blood Talons, Magna Grapple, Searchlight

Thunderwolf Cavalry
x3, +1 Meltabomb

-1998

That's it. Astaroth and the two Chaplains take a squad of DC each, and hopefully just rush forward and wreak havoc. The wolves are out in front to try and tie things up with high WS and strong initiative, and hopefully keep shooting at my more valuable units to a minimum. Canis goes with the Thunderwolves and acts as the third wave, smashing into whatever needs a metric ton of Rending attacks. Finally, I've got the two DC Dreads capable of blendering whole squads, of throwing bolts and melta around at anything it needs to hurt, and even a Magna for another high strength shot. The Furioso can do alot of the same, 'flying' around with his Power Fist and hurling the Lance at anything that might need to die from afar.

It's a very bloody list, and I see it either winning spectacularly or biting it hard.


For those curious about the fluff, Astaroth, the Chaplain and my DC are 'angels of death', kind of a Valkryie style warriors. Canis and his wolf riders are just that, wolf riders, beserker warriors on their dire steeds, with the lesser wolves at their heels. Finally, the three Dreadnoughts are great 'warbeasts', most likely some of the werewolves from Hordes (I forget the name right now), with fiery claws and harpoons and chains on them (the magna grapples), with a 'stormbeast' as the Furioso, teleporting across the field in flashes of lightning, and hurling bolts at foes.


Last edited by Xabre; 08-09-13 at 02:11 AM.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-13, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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So after realizing that the army probably will fail (since no one was brave enough to tell me), I decided that if it's going to suck, I might as well go big with it. First off, I fixed it; the army was 2016 points before. That's been corrected. Cost me the heavy flamers, but oh well.

I've also added the option for a 2500 point version of this list. Adding more fluffy kill stuff. In this case, the additional 500 points is very simple:

Njal the Stormcaller
Runic Term-Armor

Wolf Guard Pack
x4 Terminators, Chainfist + Wolf Claw ea.

Just another overly dramatic unit to throw in.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-13, 02:29 AM
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It looks good on paper but yeah you're just low on units and don't have much in the way of anti-tank. I would field test it and see how it goes.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-09-13, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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Strangely, I was less worried about the tanks than the fliers, which I know I can't defend against. I have the 3 Dreadnoughts (one with a fist, all with mletas), the 2 Melta bombs on the chappys. And of course, if all those Chainfists can get into range....but yes, numbers are the big things.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Been fiddling with this list a bit. I've rewritten it some, and I think it might be more competitive. Things can actually score, and there's some versatility to it, although it's biggest glaring weakness remains the wild Heldrake.


Astaroth

Sanguine Priest
Jump Pack, Power Sword, BP

Sanguine Priest
Jump Pack, Power Sword, BP

Furioso Librarian
Wings, Blood Lance

Furioso Librarian
Wings, Blood Lance

Death Company
x5, Jump Packs, BP/CCW

Assault Squad
x10, x2 Meltaguns

Assault Squad
x10, x2 Meltaguns

Death Company Dreadnought
Blood Talons, Magna Grapple, Searchlight

Canis Wolfborn
+2 Wolves

Fenrisian Wolves
x10

Fenrisian Wolves
x10

Thunderwolf Cavalry
x3, BP/CCW


Astaroth goes with his retinue of DC, Canis in with the Cavalry, for two hard hitting hammers. The Assault Squads can deploy in 5s or 10s, depending on how I need them; I might drop both meltas together if I really need something to die, or split them evenly, or run larger squads, but it gives me some versatility and a little bit of scoring. From the fluff standpoint, the Dreadnoughts were the only vehicles I could justify (theming them as very low tech), the DC Dread crashing the lines and ripping things apart, while the two Furiosos are 'storm giants', flashing across the board and detonating things with bolts of lightning.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 07:49 AM
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firstly..go hard! or go home!. play it your way. there is no reason that a list that has to table cant win...its just going to be very very unforgiving if/when you make mistakes.
once you play test it and get you head around the tactics needed and how to place/where to place you should be right. dont give up on it...it may take a while before you start winning but play it anyway and enjoy it..it seems like a lot of fun( besides i like full on assualt lists) im trying to build and all bezzerker list...just cause people say it cant be done hehehe
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 02:25 PM
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Yeah I agree, give it a go!

Much of the internet still maintains 1ksons don't work, but yet we both play them and have made them work for us...In reality, so much depends on your meta, on how much scenery you use and so forth. So you must always take criticism online with a pinch of salt and think about it relatively, as I am sure you know.

Sure, the gold standard is 1 troop scoring unit per 500pts (+1 if possible), however it is quite possible to build a list that is so offensive that you can negate the need for lots of troop choices.

The problems I see with the list:

Short range: No long range, and as you point out this is gonna hurt with fliers: I've never used Libby Dreads and don't have my BA codex to hand atm, so I dunno if they can cast powers? If so, Prescience would benefit your army greatly against fliers, effectively twin-linking a squads weapons which can work well when snap firing against fliers. However, there is still the issue of short range and what can you actually use to twin-link against fliers? Not a lot. Melta is about it on your assault squads. And against storm ravens you wont even get the armourbane bonus.

From a fire-support standpoint, your short range doesn't matter that much, because you make up for it with speed: A lot of your units should be on the enemy within 2 turns, and as long as you position yourself behind BLOS terrain as you move up the board and are being smart with turbo boosting you shouldn't lose many troops before getting to enemy lines. It's just the flier issue, really. And low unit count means a single mistake could cost you the game. Unforgiving of mistakes, but that doesn't mean it won't work.

It's always a constant battle for me to maintain a balance between fluffiness, models I like with competitiveness. If I feel like I am worrying too much about how my list will perform over what I enjoy playing with and what I enjoy modelling and narrating I try to take a step back and just not worry about winning and add units that I feel have character and are fun to model...So I don't think you should worry too much. Try it out, against your meta you could well table opponents with this list. Who knows.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-26-13, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the critiques, guys. Strake: the Furioso gets 2 Blood Angels powers, but Mastery level 1. Dreadfist, Force Weapon. Fairly certain they can't swap codex powers. Wings let's the dread move like jump infantry. One turn to close. Blood Lance is a tank buster; s8 Lance with a 4d6" range. I'm not certain if I need to roll to hit... and therefore might be able to kill fliers. Must research more.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-05-13, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
the Furioso gets 2 Blood Angels powers, but Mastery level 1
It's worth mentioning that it can cast one power per player turn, as per the full page entry in the codex. The FAQ states that a 'Blood Angels Librarian (including Mephiston)' may use the BRB powers. Nothing about Furioso Librarians, as they are properly called, and the other two types of Psyker are specifically mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabre View Post
s8 Lance with a 4d6" range. I'm not certain if I need to roll to hit... and therefore might be able to kill fliers. Must research more.
Hits automatically, can't hit fliers due to that. The FAQ:

Q:As Blood Lance is a psychic shooting attack, does it need to roll
To Hit? (p63)
A: No.


Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’troll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray orthe
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas.


As much as I like the list, if I were to play it against the two Heldrakes and FMC that I face I'd be losing a lot of models to vector strikes. That being said, if you get across the board fast enough it forces them to hover mode (where you might be able to do something about them) or off the board to come in from Ongoing Reserves (potentially a destroyed unit if late in the game).

Basically, the way I see this list is working is if you waste absolutely no time and get across the damn table ASAP. I'd also drop the Magna Grapple for a PS in the DC.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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Last edited by ntaw; 09-05-13 at 04:06 PM.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-06-13, 12:41 AM
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I don't think you need two priests as you have Astorath - half of all BA (so 1/2 RAS) will get FC and Fearless anyway. The priest is wasted on them. With those points you could buff your DC into a ridiculous fighting force (90 points so think 2 more guys a PW and a MB maybe? Sorry I forgot about packs so thought that would be a lot better than it is). Other than that, run fast and run hard, straight across the table. I mean that half literally - your JP troops will fly of course!

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