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post #471 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-26-15, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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So a little update on two fronts; Gaming and painting.

Yesterday was a good day - I had my very first battle with my Khorne Daemonkin. I had two friends over, who both play Orks where they started out with duking it out in a match of 1200 points in our campaign we're playing. I have to say that two Ork armies doing battle is ridiculously fun to witness!

After that, we decided to try out a larger game where they banded up and went against me with my Daemonkin. Neither of the sides had any idea what to expect, so we tried out a 2600 point list - Just to make it large scale!

I brought the following:

Slaughtercult 1
1 x Lord (Juggernaught, Bloodforged Armor, Goredrinker, Sigil of Corruption)
2 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 5 Possessed
1 x 8 Cultists

Slaughtercult 2
1 x Lord (Kor'lath, the axe of ruin)
2 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 5 Possessed
1 x 8 Cultists

Gorepack
2 x 4 Chaos Bikers (2 melta in each)
3 x 10 Khorne Hounds

War engine
Soulgrinder

Lord of Slaughter 1
Bloodthirster of Insenate Rage

Lord of Slaughter 2
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster

I brought 2 Slaughtercults so I could bring 2 Lords of Slaughter - Yes, I want to try them out, ok?!

The army above looks like this on the table:


The Ork player(s) brought this:


As you can see, walker-hell along with trukk boys and bikes.

We got the "Spoils of War" game and after roughly 30 minutes of setting up, it looked like this:


In short, the game was a big win for Daemonkin - I sorely underestimated the amount of bloodtithe points you get every turn and I basically had 7-8 points each and every turn to spend. The lord with Axe of Ruin got turned into a Daemonprince in turn 2, granting me a free Bloodthirster, and they caused havoc along the lines.

20 of the hounds swarmed the enemies nob bikes and a unit of trukk boys, keeping them there for the rest of the game -Which ended in turn 5 where the Orks gave up. The STR D bloodthirster took out 8 Killakans and a Gorkanaut all by himself, as he was my only reliable way of dealing with vehicles.

The Bloodletters, possessed and cultists swarmed up the board all over the place, grabbing objectives and always keeping their champion in front so the Orks knew that if they even shot at them once, there was a chance for me to get another Bloodtithe point - This kept them from firing at units they didn't want to kill throughout.

All in all a very fun game, and it left me with a taste of the Daemonkin army - And I absolutely love it. The dynamics in the army and the bloodtithe changes the use of a lot of the units, and those you previously would not bring all of a sudden become very viable (Possessed for example, which have always had a dear place in my heart), will absolutely wreck anything when they get +1A and FnP for a turn, as they have Furious Charge for being a Daemon of Khorne and Rage + Counter attack for having Mark of Khorne.

A fun fight and I cannot wait until the next!

On the painting front, the dogs are finished... well nearly. I ran out of texture for the bases halfway through yesterday


I am running by the store later today to get some more - I will need a shitload of the stuff to rebase my entire Crimson Slaughter army.

When they are done, I will take some nice photos for you all - I'm really liking the darker theme, and the hounds look great with it!

Update coming soon'ish!
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post #472 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-26-15, 02:20 PM
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Good stuff all around. Are you replacing Crimson Slaughter with KD or just running them both ways?


SUFFER NOT THE PONY TO LIVE.

- - AMATEUR KHORNESTAR: MY BLOG THING - -
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post #473 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-26-15, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicus View Post
In short, the game was a big win for Daemonkin - I sorely underestimated the amount of bloodtithe points you get every turn and I basically had 7-8 points each and every turn to spend. The lord with Axe of Ruin got turned into a Daemonprince in turn 2, granting me a free Bloodthirster, and they caused havoc along the lines.
The Blood Tithe mechanic doesn't really scale with larger games too well, honestly. I think there's a sweet spot around 1500-2000 points that they've tailored the rewards to (less or more based on how many units you have [MSU earning more tithe points just because you can force enemies to kill you faster], how many Blood Hosts you bring, how many characters the enemy army has you can challenge, etc)--at that point, so you're not overwhelmed in the deluge of extra points, you might as well start bringing in allies. Locus of Beguilement-buffed Slaaneshi Daemons, maybe, for Rending (since beyond "Big Killnasties" Daemonkin struggles for AP2). Be'lakor and/or Fateweaver for those fun synergies. CSM Daemon Weapons like the Axe of Blind Fury or a Mace Prince. Havocs. Reliable Forge World anti-air. You'll be earning enough Blood Tithe points for your Khornate contingent that will be in your enemy's face all game that they have to respond to; might as well bring some of the other mean Chaos stuff the codex doesn't normally let you get.

I'm glad you've had much the same dynamic as I did with loving the very strong ludonarrative assonance in the mechanics of "THROW THEM INTO THE MEAT-GRINDER!"

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
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post #474 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-27-15, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomlust View Post
Are you replacing Crimson Slaughter with KD or just running them both ways?
I am running three armies right now; Daemons, Crimson Slaughter and Daemonkin. I have been so lucky in my choice of theme for my CSM, as the red theme goes perfectly with Daemonkin as well.

Considering that I have to rebase my Crimson Slaughter, I have decided to use the same theme on them as my Khorne Daemons though. Blood on the ground fits just fine with Crimson Slaughter and it gives the Daemonkin a thorough look as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
I'm glad you've had much the same dynamic as I did with loving the very strong ludonarrative assonance in the mechanics of "THROW THEM INTO THE MEAT-GRINDER!"
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Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
Be'lakor and/or Fateweaver for those fun synergies. CSM Daemon Weapons like the Axe of Blind Fury or a Mace Prince. Havocs. Reliable Forge World anti-air. You'll be earning enough Blood Tithe points for your Khornate contingent that will be in your enemy's face all game that they have to respond to; might as well bring some of the other mean Chaos stuff the codex doesn't normally let you get.
Oh I completely agree - I will be playing more games at around 1500-1750 to get a solid baseline and then I will start allying things in. The first game though - Damn that was fun. I am in love with the playstyle completely!
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post #475 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-27-15, 11:45 AM
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I'm curious about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
The Blood Tithe mechanic doesn't really scale with larger games too well, honestly. I think there's a sweet spot around 1500-2000 points that they've tailored the rewards to (less or more based on how many units you have [MSU earning more tithe points just because you can force enemies to kill you faster], how many Blood Hosts you bring, how many characters the enemy army has you can challenge, etc)--at that point, so you're not overwhelmed in the deluge of extra points, you might as well start bringing in allies. ...

..."THROW THEM INTO THE MEAT-GRINDER!"
I certainly see the value in allying in more units to diversify the army and add more ranged/tactical capabilities. It seems like the blood points should scale reasonably well. The function is either to buff your army or replenish it as it gets destroyed and in a larger game shouldn't that simply allow more buffing and replenishing?

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #476 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-27-15, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
I certainly see the value in allying in more units to diversify the army and add more ranged/tactical capabilities. It seems like the blood points should scale reasonably well. The function is either to buff your army or replenish it as it gets destroyed and in a larger game shouldn't that simply allow more buffing and replenishing?
If you're playing a 3000 point game with pure Khorne Daemonkin and earning 10 Blood Points per turn, you're clearly not getting the most out of the mechanic, since you can only use up to 8 Blood Points. And honestly, more often I'd rather create a new unit of Bloodletters for free DSing where I want than have to negotiate the whole tangle of rules that is "DSing in a summoned FMC if I pass a LD test to kill one of my champions," so I only need 5 or 6 Blood Tithe points--if I'm not, say, going for +1 Attack on my entire army with FNP on my Slaghter Cult, which is only 4 Blood Tithe points. Likewise, at (say) 500 point armies, there are so few units in play that you'll struggle to earn more than a Blood Point per turn.

Also the fact that a, say, 250 point Bloodthirster is 1/6th of a 1500 point list, but only 1/12 of a 3000 point list--your opponent will be more able to compensate for any points discrepancy brought about by your summoning and have more tools to respond to it, if you are playing on a larger scale. If you're trying to refill your army with 80 point squads of Bloodletters every turn, well... you're refilling a lot higher % of your army if you have a lower points list, versus how fast a larger enemy list can kill you off. And so on. If it were "summon 2 Bloodletters per 500 points in your army list" or something, then I would say it scaled.

It's not too sharp or dramatic a falloff too fast, I don't think, but... I will say that the mechanic begins losing efficiency and some of the driving focus, some of the frenetic zeal lashing your troops forward to deflagrate in the bloody tempest, and really, who wants that? Another inefficiency: the easiest rewards on the table to earn are the ones that affect your whole army, so even if you have a lot of units to benefit from the bonuses, all your points get gobbled up by that.

You can compensate for higher points to not be overflowing with Blood Points, I'm sure, by only bringing mega-squads of 20 Flesh Hounds, 10 Bikers, 20 Zerkers, etc, so to scale back how fast you earn BPs via your own units killed (has the side bonus of being less likely to give up first blood, but also means you have to be more careful with your assaults to get the assault bonuses your "Mark of/Daemon of" get you, rather than having MSU bait to lure in opponents then falling on them from all sides to guarantee a bunch of assault bonuses). Also by not taking a Blood Host detachment, that would work too.

I think it's a fine line of efficiency to straddle, but that if you have the points to spare, you could bring in some mean synergies that Daemonkin doesn't usually get. Psykers, Be'lakor's Invisibility, more reliable AP2, rerolls to Apotheosis Ld checks from Fateweaver, Daemon Weapons--etc.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!

Last edited by Mossy Toes; 05-27-15 at 05:11 PM.
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post #477 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-27-15, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Toes View Post
If you're playing a 3000 point game with pure Khorne Daemonkin and earning 10 Blood Points per turn, you're clearly not getting the most out of the mechanic, since you can only use up to 8 Blood Points. And honestly, more often I'd rather create a new unit of Bloodletters for free DSing where I want ...

...I think it's a fine line of efficiency to straddle, but that if you have the points to spare, you could bring in some mean synergies that Daemonkin doesn't usually get. Psykers, Be'lakor's Invisibility, more reliable AP2, rerolls to Apotheosis Ld checks from Fateweaver, Daemon Weapons--etc.
That all makes sense. I realize now that I hadn't read the blood tithe rules as closely as I should have. There were a few misunderstandings on my part. Chiefly that as soon as you select a boon you lose the remaining points; so for example you can't summon bloodletters AND give your units feel no pain.

My knee jerk reaction is to make 2 house rule changes:
1) you can make more than 1 choice from the Blood tithe table per turn
2) in larger battles you can make more than 1 selection per turn from the Blood Tithe Table either per detachment or per 1500/2000 points (I'd need to think about how to balance that)

It seems silly that the bonuses never scale with the game, even though the purpose is to encourage balls out charging.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #478 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-28-15, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
My knee jerk reaction is to make 2 house rule changes:
1) you can make more than 1 choice from the Blood tithe table per turn
2) in larger battles you can make more than 1 selection per turn from the Blood Tithe Table either per detachment or per 1500/2000 points (I'd need to think about how to balance that)
Hmm. Perhaps "each CAD or Blood Host Detachment uses its own pool of Blood Tithe points"? Might be hard to keep track of which unit is from which, unless they're deployed way apart, though. Would also screw over tiny allied detachments or folks just taking, say, a lone Gorepack with their force.

CSM Plog, Tactica

What sphinx of plascrete and adamantium bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Imperator! Imperator!
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post #479 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-28-15, 12:26 AM
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Spoiler to reduce thread hijacking.

Chaos Army Showcase with photos (Updated 2013/12/02)
"To endure one's self is perhaps the hardest task in the universe." Frank Herbert, 'Dune Messiah'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethklokk
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Originally Posted by Deathscythe4722
Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.

Last edited by Kreuger; 05-28-15 at 12:29 AM.
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post #480 of 923 (permalink) Old 05-30-15, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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So I just completed my biggest challenge yet; I completed the 30 Fleshhounds on top of my 3 Bloodthirsters - In one month.

A little proof is in order I believe:


And in "Pretty picture" quality:


I did them in the same theme that I did my Bloodthirsters, with a few tweaks. They go from dark brown paws, up to red on their backs and they have the same color (although it can be hard to see as it's not where the light is) on their stomach as the wings do on the Bloodthirsters.

As the models are just one big bag of muscle, I had to do something to give them some variety. My best attempt so far was making some transitions in color on them, so they seem more.. Natural in their look.

I hope you like them! Now I'm unto rebasing my whole Crimson Slaughter army - With the same base theme as these dogs.

( @venomlust : You're up dude. Let's see those dawgs!)


UPDATE: And there we go - All bases removed and replaced with regular GW bases or equivalent:


Now I'll let the glue settle a bit, before I embark on the big "Stirland Mud" phase.

Last edited by Nordicus; 05-30-15 at 10:12 AM.
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