Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums

Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/)
-   40k Rules Discussion (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/17-40k-rules-discussion/)
-   -   Monstrous Creatures & Cover from Friendly Units (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-rules-discussion/93407-monstrous-creatures-cover-friendly-units.html)

20draws10 07-01-11 06:05 AM

Monstrous Creatures & Cover from Friendly Units
Will a monstrous creature receive the normal 4+ cover save from being shot at through a unit, or do they have to be 50% obscured to receive the cover save?

From my understanding, the actual model needs to be 50% obscured by intervening models to get the cover save, but I just want clarification as to if this is correct.

Also, would this work the same with a hive tyrant with wings, if the model physically is elevated off the base?
With gargoyles, is it the physical model that confers the obscurity, or the base?
Would it be considered 'cheating' if you changed the angle and height of the gargoyles to confer more coverage to help screen monstrous creatures?

--Rules Quoted from Warhammer 40k 5th edition rule book--

"Intervening models
If a target is partially hidden from the firer’s view by
other models, it receives a 4+ cover save in the same
way as if it was behind terrain." (pg. 21)

"In addition, for a monstrous creature to
be in cover, at least 50% of its body (as defined on
page 16) has to be in cover from the point of view of
the majority of the firing models. Also, standing in area
terrain does not automatically confer a cover save to
monstrous creatures – the 50% rule takes precedence.
Cover for them works exactly as for vehicles (see page
62)." (pg. 51)

"At least 50% of the facing of the vehicle that is
being targeted (i.e. its front, side or rear) needs to be
hidden by intervening terrain or models from the
point of view of the firer for the vehicle to claim to
be in cover. If this is the case, the vehicle is said to be
obscured (or ‘hull down’). If a squad is firing at a
vehicle, the vehicle is obscured only if it is 50%
hidden from the majority of the firing models (do not
count models that cannot hurt the vehicle)." (pg. 62)

don_mondo 07-01-11 08:58 AM

Yes, a vehicle or monstrous creature must be 50% or more obscured (LOS blocked) or have some other rule that is giving it a cover save (Smoke, KFF, etc).

Tim/Steve 07-01-11 11:26 AM

In my experience its very rare for MCs to get cover saves from being obscured, in those cases where people try to claim it it is normally pretty marginal and would normally be downgraded to a 5+.
Personally I like to get my cover saves by making mixed units: hive tyrant with guard or tomb spyder with scarab swarm. That way you can get a cover save on the non-MC for intervening models or being in cover and pass it on tot he MC (if 50% of a unit is un cover they all are).

Salahaldin 07-01-11 06:51 PM

It is not the base but the actual model that determines if unit hiding behind hgets a cover save; you use real Line of Sight, so you get down and see how much of your target is behind the intervening model. In the case of a Hive Tyrant being obscure by Gargoyles, that's perfectly allowed and an oft-used tactic to give your Flyrant a little protection. As for modelling for advantage, there is no rule against it but it generally is frowned upon. There's no cut and dry way to distinguish between acceptable levels of MFA(modelling for advantage); that is to say, there's no technical difference between you constructing your Gargoyles with their wings spread wide and at different heights and an IG player making all his infantry lying down to make sure they always get a cover save. The best way to avoid unpleasantness is to ignore gaming concerns when making your model.

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:22 PM.

Powered by the Emperor of Man.

vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome