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TheKingElessar 01-07-11 12:14 AM

Provisional Homebrew Ideas - Feedback please!
Ok, so, as you may know, I've put up some Chaos Homebrew in the Homebrew Rules, and am working on a pile more.

To be concise, I am writing 2 concurrent Fandexes : Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades. Legions will cover World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, Death Guard, Night Lords, Black Legion and presumably Iron Warriors (unconfirmed atm.)

Renegades will cover Red Corsairs, Fallen, non-Chaos Renegade Marines (except Knights of Blood, obvs) , Traitor Guard, Mutants, Cultists, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers.

In a very loose way, Legions is based on the EoT, the other not really.

Now, obviously the Big Five Legions are sorted, and need minimal work apart from points adjustment (WE, EC, DG, TS, BL) and minor issues I already consider sorted tbh. (In MY rules, not IRL)

The Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Night Lords and Iron Warriors are more tricky.

Here are my provisional ideas on them, feedback gratefully received.

With NL and IW in the Codex with the Cult Troopers, and the Cults likely being Troops, they need to be comprised of a separate Troop unit called 'Traitor Legionnaires'. They need an unlockable bonus, working like the Chapter Tactics mechanic - that is, when you take a Character relating to that Legion (ie, a 'Warsmith' for IW or a 'Reaver' for NL) the rule they have by default (necessarily bland and vague, so as to promote Legion-themed play) 'Ancient Enemy' or 'Eternal Hatred' or somesuch, will be replaced/overwritten by:

NL : - Raptors become Troops. All models with 'Ancient Enemy' gain the Hit and Run, Fearless and Night Vision USRs. [This needs work, it feels very underpowered :(]

IW : - All models with the 'Ancient Enemy' rule gain Melta Bombs at no additional cost. In addition, they gain the Relentless and Stealth USRs. [See what I mean? I also feel there should be a way of moving Oblits to Elite or HS a la MotF.]

With the AL and WB this is more complicated.

The Codex they reside in will have alternative Troops, in Traitor Guard (unlockable, starting as Elite) , Beastmen, Renegade Marines, Cultists...maybe Mutants go here too.

Traitor Legionnaires will be Elite, along with Cult Troops (possibly even omitted entirely, meaning you would need Team events/Apoc to field the full gamut of mortal servants of the Ruinous Powers.)

Traitor Legionnaires would move to Troops in the conventional FoC shifting way, with an HQ. While I would do this with Cypher too, I have no intent of letting the cat out of the bag regarding my thoughts there. :P

'Dark Apostles' would move Traitor Legionnaires, and give them the following:
Models with the 'Eternal Hatred' rule replace that with the Fearless and Preferred Enemy USRs.

The 'Cult of the Hydra' would move Traitor Legionnaires to Troops, and replace the 'Eternal Hatred' rule with the Scouts, Infiltrate and Hit and Run USRs. [Tempted to add Stealth. Too much? I like Alpha Legion. :wink: ]

To alleviate fears - no, I won't be omitting Daemons. They will function as now, but you will be able to purchase Marks for them, with the following effects:
Khorne - Power Weapons, Furious Charge.
Slaanesh - Rending, Fleet.
Nurgle - FnP, SnP, Poison (4+)
Tzeentch - 3++, access to a psychic shooting attack.


Dawnstar 01-07-11 12:37 AM

For the NL 'Ancient Enemy', why not include a rule similar to the Stormboys ability to move 12" + D6"? Since NL's are supposed to be swift and fast it would fit in

TheKingElessar 01-07-11 12:43 AM

Heh, Dark Magician Girl.

Anyway...That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how to operate that mechanically.

Giving them Fleet would sort of do it, but it would also seem a little strong, and more than a bit uncharacterful.

Dawnstar 01-07-11 12:51 AM

You could give the NL's an option to upgrade their Jump Packs to Jet Packs :search:
It would give them an extra 6" movement in the Assault Phase, so it effectively be the same as giving them the rule

TheKingElessar 01-07-11 12:53 AM

Ah...now THAT's interesting.

Hrmm...+Rep for idea. :)

What do you think of the other Legions? Too good/bad/unfluffy?

Dawnstar 01-07-11 01:04 AM

What about giving IW Relentless, Stealth, and Tank Hunters since the NL's have 3 special rules for their Ancient Enemy?

Something like:

NL: Raptors become Troops. In addition, Raptors may upgrade to Jet Packs for X amount of points. All models with 'Ancient Enemy' gain the Hit and Run, Fearless and Night Vision USRs.

IW: Devastator squads become troops. In addition, Devastators may take 2 more weapons then they would normally be allowed (or some other rule that lets them take weapons for less points). All models with the 'Ancient Enemy' rule gain Melta Bombs at no additional cost. In addition, they gain the Relentless, Stealth and Tank Hunter USRs.

I agree with the Cult of the Hydra having stealth as well. Maybe a Sniper Rifle upgrade as well? It fits with the Scout, Infiltrate pairing.

Why not give WB's a special option regrading Daemons? Or making Possessed troops and give them a rule makeover (such as paying points for special rules?)

TheKingElessar 01-07-11 01:43 AM

Well, Word Bearers fluff says that mutation is rare, though they almost revere the one directly touched by the Dark Gods...I hadn't considered making Possessed Troops.

I am wary to put an 'arms race' in by trying to have X USRs each or whatever...I seriously thought about Tank Hunters, and in the end felt it too much - they are about Sieges, not tank-hunting. Plus, it detracts from Chosen paying points for it, which I plan to reinstate.

IW making Devs (Havocs!) Troops would be more than enough without cheaper too, lol. It would be good, no question, but I'd need a way to make them only an option, not an auto-pick. The last thing I want if for them to become the obviously best build (again) and play like it was 4e all over again.

One thing I should have stated was part of my Design Brief was that I don't want Chaos able to do Melta like Imperials.

Of course, they will get fairly easy access, and it IS the only reliable tank-killing rather than suppression - BUT, I want Chaos to be more geared towards MEQ killing, and therefore Plasma-spam. I just have to balance that so they don't auto-win against Nids.

I don't imagine Alpha Legion Snipers, more Saboteurs (and not like in the awful game!)
Stealth may not be overpowered to add, but it makes the Cult expensive.

When I get to it, I will see I think.

Thanks, and keep the ideas going! :)

Dawnstar 01-07-11 06:30 AM

For AL, Scouts, Infiltrate, Stealth, and Hit and Run seem to set them up as Strong Skirmishers and Saboteurs. Maybe some type of special weapon or rule that reflects their high cost-low model situation? Maybe something like the Hellions rule to be able to drag an IC out of CC after they make their Hit and Run move? This could be used to change the role of the Alpha Legion depending on what was used to move them, this being an example for the Cult of Hydra.

By using the Dark Apostles to move the AL, you could set them up to be fierce warriors, backed up by the fearless and preferred enemy USR's. Maybe an additional rule such as Rending could go here? Again, it sets them up as high point-low model strong fighters. Plus by changing the way you move AL, you change the role of Alpha Legion and the role of the entire army, leading to varied lists.

Have you considered an army-wide Preferred enemy against Loyalist Marines? Reasoning being many Chaos Marines still consider the war against the Imperium to still continue, and it represents their eternal hatred of the Imperium. Another reason could be that since they are essentially Space Marines (just totally evil) they know the weakness of how Space Marines fight and operate.

As far as Plasma Spam, I dont really have any idea's apart from making it insanely easy for models to access Plasma weaponry. Maybe letting Havoc's (I had a feeling calling them Dev's was wrong :laugh:) take Plasma Cannons?

I do agree with your reasoning on Tank Hunters though. Maybe you could enable to have different roles in the game by making various USR's able to be purchased for them. ie Melta Chosen w/ Tank Hunters, Sniper Chosen w/ Scout and Infiltrate etc. Although I do see this as perhaps making Chosen too overpowered...

TheKingElessar 01-07-11 08:13 AM

Preferred vs 'Space Marines' wouldn't work, as it omits SoBs, IG, Space Wolves, BA, DA, BTs, GKs etc etc. Putting all of these in makes the rule 'clunky' and unwieldy. :(

The Plasma Spam I have sorted, I just wanted to get that out there. lol

I would rather see the Hellions the only one with that ability.

Bear in mind they essentially get these USRs free, or at least discounted.

Also, Dark Apostles are Word Bearer only. :P

Chosen will be very good (think Wolf Guard or Sanguinary Guard) but quite costly too. Perhaps 'a unit of Lone Wolves' would be the closest analogy.

Vaz 01-07-11 10:53 AM

Why exactly 3 USR's? Raven Guard get Fleet. It's a relatively "powerful" rule in the right circumstances, but only of use in assault units, really - and Assault Marines aren't effective (for their cost) as assault units, and Vanguard are too expensive to make use out of. Scouts could benefit, but then again, they're fairly poor in an assault as well. The one unit majorly benefitting is Assault Terminators, and plopping them in a vehicle is more than enough.

Night Lords - they just had Night Vision/Acute Senses. Assault Marines were used before others in the Legions, but that doesn't mean they have any more. However, the same could be said of Blood Angels, and look where that gets them. Night Lords - perhaps they grant an addition -1 to Morale Check modifiers in an assault, akin to "Daemonic Visage"?

IW - I'd like to say Havoc's can score, but that's not particularly nice (as it's then achoice between Scoring Heavy Weapons Teams or Obliterators). Perhaps a Warsmith (can take a Servo Harness, or Daemonic Conversion Beamer - Kai Gun?). Perhaps give thm Stealth or Stubborn when in ruins?

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