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-   -   1st competitive BA list NEEDS REVISION (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/space-marine-army-lists/71482-1st-competitive-ba-list-needs-revision.html)

Shamrok 09-20-10 03:34 PM

1st competitive BA list NEEDS REVISION
 
This is my first list for competitive tournaments, Its 2136 and Iím just shooting in the dark as to how effective this is going to be. The actual points limit for this tournament hasn't been decided yet I expect between 1850 to 2500. So please any constructive criticisms, advice, and critiques would be great. I want to break it down into 3lists, first thinning it down to 1850 and 2000 point lists, and also fleshing it out to a 2500 point list. Thanks in advance.

I'm mainly thinking of deepstriking most of my forces so any tips on what units to capitalize on that that would be great.

HQ

Librarian 178
Epistolary
JP
Storm Bolter

Elites

Terminator Assault squad 220
4 TH &SS
1 LC

Sanguinary Guard 200
Chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols

Chaplain 128
Storm Bolter
JP

Troops

2 (10 man) Assault Squads 250 each squad
+ 5 marines
2 meltaguns
Sargeants melta bombs
Saregeants power weapons

Death Company 395
+ 7 Marines
3 Power weapons
JP

Fast Attack

2 Baal Predators 155 each
Heavy Bolters
Pintle Mounted Storm Bolters

Bike Squadron 205
+ 3 Bikes
X2 meltaguns
Sargeant Melta Bomb
Power weapon

Thinking of adding an Annihilator or another Baal Pred, maybe a land raider as designated transport for the Assault Terminators.

CLT40k 09-20-10 04:31 PM

Couple of thoughts....

1. Epistolary generally isn't a good use of points. You either cast the shield or the other stuff... given that you might only have 1 turn to do both, I don't find it to be woth the cost. Also, if you give him a Storm Bolter, he'll lose an attack in CC. I would leave him with the Bolt Pistol.

2. The termies could use a ride... a Land Raider would be good for them.

Also, something to consider... I think your lists will run best if you give them some focus.. ie focus on the Termies, or focus on the DC. Either is an alright choice, but I think you're list will suffer if you try to work in both (since both are pretty significant point sinks)

Hope that helps... good luck.

Shamrok 09-20-10 07:07 PM

Would a Vanguard Veteran Squad be a good replacement for the terminators?

CLT40k 09-20-10 09:09 PM

depends... If we were talking Termies without a LR vs Vanguard Vets... then I think I could do more with the vets...

Typically I have a broad idea about how I want the list to play - though as a caveat, I stay way from multiples...(ie, shooty, assaulty, own midfield, etc... ) then I build around it... So for the lists you're thinking of, is there a particular thing you want it to do?

Shamrok 09-20-10 09:29 PM

I want it to be a strong cc list yet be able to take out armor as needed, I am planning on a majority of my force deep striking, and maybe if I get around to justifying them, using drop pods. I may focus on assault squads with a few vehicles and bikes.

Lord Reevan 09-21-10 02:23 AM

Personally I think the list is a little all over the place. Nothing really works well with each other, At least not at this point. Your best bet is to pick a style for your army, whether it is a DOA army(all jumpers) a mech razorspam army, or a deathstar army with either the terminators or DC. But I'll go through the units you have and give you some advice on them :D

Librarian - Not a great set up. Epostilary is rarely a good choice as probably the 2 best army buffing powers of the librarian(unleash rage and shield) are done in different turns so can be done to full effect. This is arguable but they'd help the most in most units you have. Storm bolter no good as your paying to take a CC attack away.

Termies are set up well, They'd need a transport though otherwise they get avoided or get shot to hell before they do any damage.

Sanguinary Guard are wrong. They're 200 base. they'd be 250pts with the upgrades you have.

Chaplain You'd be better off with another Librarian, same things as above, Mainly because Unleash Rage does what the chaplain does only in turns other than the initial charge, as well as giving you some psychic defence.

Assault Squads are actually 230pts each. But they're decent set up as they are.

Now Death Company. What'd happen if they were charged by a dreadnought? a defiler, or a T8 creature? they'd be swinging around doing absolutely nothing. Up at least one weapon to a fist to give them some chance vs things like that. Also maybe add an infernus pistol so they can pop vehicles and assault the squishy insides to get full effect out of them.

Baals good to have 2 of them, they work best in pairs. the storm bolters are unnecessary though. you're already firing 10 shots why spend more for 2 much weaker ones?

Bikes, A friend of mine used them competitively and found that to make them effective they start costing much more than things that can rip through them with ease. if you want bikes in your list your best bet is attack bikes with MMs for the anti tank.

I Don't know what style of list you are going for here so I won't tell you what things to drop and what to keep but I hope the advice I've given here can help you with your choice. Good luck :D

Shamrok 09-21-10 10:23 PM

Okay so I think I'm going to strip it down to the basics and build upfrom advice I want a mostly all out assault army with a couple o' tweaks (in the form of Ball Preds and maybe some other tricks)

HQ

Librarian 140
JP
Infernus pistol
powers Sanguine Sword and the Blood Lance

Librarian 140
JP
Infernus pistol
Powers Sanguine sword and Unleash Rage

(should I leave bolt pistols on both?)

Elites

Sanguinary Guard 285
Death Masks
Chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols
Powerfist?
(might get rid of powerfist is it a good idea)

Troops

3 Assault Squads 245 each
+5 marines
2 meltaguns
Sergeant Infernus Pistol
(on the fence on that one maybe switch to hand flamers)
Power weapon (should I change any to power fists?)
melta bombs

Fast Attack

2 Baal Predators 145 each
Heavy Bolters

Heres where the tricky part comes in I want a big death company on jet packs with a good weapons load out I am wondering if it is worth the amount of points it is going to cost, also I want to find a place for some bikes maybe 2 bike squads with a MM attack bike each. Or I could add a destructor w/ lascannon sponsons. I'm leaning towards another option, dreadnoughts, specifically one or two librarian furiosos and two support dreads advice on weapons load outs would be great

Lord Reevan 09-22-10 08:06 AM

infernus pistosl aren't really worth it to be honest. at that kind iof range you might as well use meltabombs and save 10pts. On the sanguinary guard however I would keep them as they're cheaper for them. The powerfist always have at least one in case you get charged by something like a dread or wraithlord or any other thing that normal marines can't kill.

The assault squads I think 2 squads shoudl have power weapons and meltabombs while the other has a power fist. Balances them out fairly nicely that way. Infernus pistols and hand flamers again I dislike them. Too many points for nothing special bar an extra attack.

Tha Baals in a list like this they need to be outflanked. Otherwise as the only vehicles in the list they will die fast

Shamrok 09-22-10 02:36 PM

What would you suggest to outflank the Baals, and I really appreciate your and CLT40k's advice.

Lord Reevan 09-22-10 06:25 PM

Well The baals Have the scout rule, meaning that if they are held in reserve they can come onto the table from the sides. they can work well and they wouldn't be targeted by every anti tank gun in the first few turns. If you want to go for a full Jumpers list I would drop them for a unit of Vanguard. These guys are pretty much a necessity in a Jumpers army as they can drop down and hold up a unit from shooting the other things that come down on your turn, which can be very good for you. One set up I swear by for them, it has made it's points back in all but 2 games I've used them is

Vanguard Assault Squad – X6, Jump Packs, X2 lightning claws(separate), X2 thunder hammer, X2 shields – 310pts

20pts more expensive than the 2 baals but you do get a lot of punch with these guys, able to deal wit pretty much every unit out there and with the 2 storm shields can take a fair bit of damage back. the mix of weapons also allows wound allocation to get helpful enough for you. Hope this helps. Remember it's just an option. IF you want to keep the baals by all means go ahead. It is your list after all :)


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