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-   -   Versus...Teclis (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-tactics/71472-versus-teclis.html)

itsonlyme 04-12-11 10:19 PM

Tim/Steve just tell people your are practicing for a tournament and ask them to build a list with the comp (search online for a random tournament say 6 months away). When it comes round just say "decided not to go", by which point your friends are so used to not using special characters they won't be so bothered about them!

MarquisDeSade 06-10-11 12:57 AM

I've found the combination of 3 Trebuchets to whittle down the unit followed by a charge from KotR with Lord tends to do the trick. Because of Lance formation, there aren't too many attacks hitting first and the Bret Lord will be in a challenge with Teclis (Gauntlet of the Duel - Challenge MUST be accepted). 4 S6 attacks at WS10 re-rolling misses and wounds plus one from the trusty nag tends to see minor characters die a rather grisely death lol.

Orochi 06-10-11 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarquisDeSade (Post 996559)
I've found the combination of 3 Trebuchets to whittle down the unit followed by a charge from KotR with Lord tends to do the trick. Because of Lance formation, there aren't too many attacks hitting first and the Bret Lord will be in a challenge with Teclis (Gauntlet of the Duel - Challenge MUST be accepted). 4 S6 attacks at WS10 re-rolling misses and wounds plus one from the trusty nag tends to see minor characters die a rather grisely death lol.

Teclis is normally guarded by Caradryan. And camped in a big unit.

Besides, the whole point of why Teclis is hard to kill is because he sends out more successful spells than an Oxbridge spelling comp.
Anyone who's anyone won't let your Gauntlet of the Duel near him without either spell blasting you, or have Teclis exit out of the back of the unit.

At which point, Caradryan accepts/issues a challenge and slays your Lord.

SonsOfVulkan 10-28-11 02:53 AM

Daemons vs. Teclis... assassinate Teclis with a fiend? FAQ states that Teclis can't be put in the second rank.

Tatsumaki 10-28-11 03:01 PM

It's true that Teclis/Book of Hoeth tends to make frustrations run high among his enemies, especially given the big new boost to the power of magic in new rules. Thankfully, I spend a lot of my time fighting an opponant who uses Teclis, along with the Star Dragon lord and the 30 man unit of White Lions, and I don't lose all of the time.

It's fair to say that everyone hates him with good reason. My solution is to use units that have ASF. Teclis and his unit are likely to be strong, but if both sides ASF then Teclis, his assailant and his bodyguard will strike at the same time. Vampire assasins with the swift striking sword are good, actual Dark Elf assassins are even better. Teclis may have a lot of wounds, but unfortunately for him he just doesnt have enough to outlast most enemies for any length of time.

Alternatively, I crush his unit. This is easy for me to say, of course, given that Lizards have very strong core choices but Warriors of Chaos, Orcs, Beastmen and so on are all more than a match for spearmen. Things that do mass damage to the enemy like Curse of Years or Soul Stealer will also decimate elite units. If he's in a very strong elite unit like White Lions then... Well let's just say assassination is probably the best choice.

Also, I know that in theory I could take lore of life with my slaan and just throw 7 dice int Dwellers below and hopefully survive the miscast, but I don't like this solution. Firstly, I feel like it's just sinking to his level and relying on over-powered new magic rules. Secondly, he could just give Teclis lore of life and do the same thing to me. And finally, it's just not fluff worthy. Slaan are ancient and wise beings that have led their race for centuries, they don't act rashly and risk their own souls over some pesky warmblood.

The point is when I come across an enemy who uses white lion hordes, or irresistable miscasting Heralds of Tzeench or indeed over-strong characters like Teclis, I don't respond by using similarly short-cutting tactics. I want to be able to crush these tricks without having to plan my list out for them beforehand; I feel it's more classy that way.

Having said all of this, if you are a High Elf player and don't see anything wrong with it, that's fine too. I recommend, if you intend to field Teclis, you need to keep him off the front line at all costs. He should be in a small bunker unit behind that big phalanx of spearmen, maybe in a unit of Pheonix Guard. Also, Teclis is at his best when he is buffing his army or de-buffing the enemy. Consider giving him Lore of Shadow, for example. That way he can also escape if things are going very bad.

Finally, don't give in to the temptation to put him in an over-strong unit. Because your enemy will just devote their time to killing that unit. I once saw a match in which Teclis had a unit of 50 spearmen, Caradryel in the unit. He just hit the unit with -D3 Toughness and then attacked them with Salamanders and Chamo Skinks, and ended up killing every single one of them... And then Teclis too! Essentially, Teclis is a deadly and powerful character, but he's not going to win the game for you on his own! Even he's not that good.

So there is my advice both for killing and protecting Teclis.

Tim/Steve 10-28-11 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonsOfVulkan (Post 1094919)
Daemons vs. Teclis... assassinate Teclis with a fiend? FAQ states that Teclis can't be put in the second rank.

That's true... but then the HE player does have Caradryan (likely), Teclis and a whole unit of ASF HE to smack your fiend with before you even get to attack... so you'll almost certainly be dead before you can kill old Teclis. Even if you don't die you'll have 4A hitting on 4+ and needing 3 wounds to kill Teclis (who if he is a life mage will easily heal 2W a turn).

ASF makes suicide assassinations really difficult... you have to be strong enough to survive the enemy's attacks and still be able to do enough wounds to kill him. Units with ASF can do it... but cheap ASF units are pretty rare.

Stephen_Newman 10-28-11 08:56 PM

I will try that Tim/Steve

Am I right though in suggesting that although Teclis is immune to magic spells with the Banner of the World Dragon he is not immune to magical attacks (I.E. those such as from Skaven Warpstone Weapons, Magic Items etc)?

Tim/Steve 10-28-11 09:31 PM

Magic attacks are not spells/magic... they are unaffected by MR, banner of the world dragon and all other anti-magic protections.

SonsOfVulkan 10-29-11 01:14 AM

Wait so if I line a single fiend of slaanesh and charge into base contact with Teclis, that single fiend will get rape by the rest of Teclis's unit?

Lord Sven Kittyclaw 10-29-11 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonsOfVulkan (Post 1095500)
Wait so if I line a single fiend of slaanesh and charge into base contact with Teclis, that single fiend will get rape by the rest of Teclis's unit?

whoever the fiend is in base contact with will hit. And supporting attacks, with asf and str 4 (taking into account that PG are the usual bunker unit.)

SonsOfVulkan 10-29-11 05:01 AM

Thats what I thought, and I often see lists with Teclis bunkered in a large spear unit.

Eitherway its Teclis and a spearman or PG vs. one fiend. Teclis is WS3 and T2, so it should be 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound. Even if Teclis survives the first round of combat, forcing him to waste spells to heal which is all good. And he has no invuln saves.

ExtraCrew 02-01-12 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordWaffles (Post 782474)
Wulfrik from behind seems to be chaos' hard counter to Teclis hiding in the back.

But in all seriousness jesus fucking christ he's undercosted, especially if they take the lore of metal. (Kills my lords on a 6+ with NO saves!? And my warriors on a 5+? Again no save? Fuuuuuck)

Calvary works okay if they can get there. But good lord lore of metal is way too good, and vastly superior to shit tier tzeentch spells.

ya it powerful against your army, but crap against my Night gobbos, think thats the point.

Tim/Steve 02-01-12 07:53 AM

Actually, I would say a Teclis lore of metal is probably even nastier against night goblins: sure searing doom, plague of rust and golden hounds are crap... bu the rest is incredibly powerful.

Enchanted Blades- +1 to hit, always nice
Glittering robe- 3+ save on spearmen/special infantry... pretty immense
Transmutation of Lead- WS1 goblins mean your even hitting spearmen on 5s
Final Transmutation... OH MY GOD!! This is nasty against things like WoC because it kills 1/3 of the unit, its nasty against goblins because it kills 1/3 of the unit and then forces Ld6-7 stupidity tests on EVERY unit within 12". In a goblin army that'll be a lot of units, and a huge chunk of his army just bimbling forward D6" a turn

I took the wizard's hat on my WE highborn just for a giggle and rolled metal against an empire army that didn't have better then 6+ save anywhere... my opponent laughed. I then killed about 12 handgunners out of a big unit of 27 (yeah, I don't know why 27 either), killed his general and caused every unit in his army to take Ld7-8 stupidity tests next turn (12 or 13 units in all).
I was unlucky and only got the spell off once, and it still changed the game, and against NGs it'd be worse.

Aramoro 02-01-12 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtraCrew (Post 1152371)
ya it powerful against your army, but crap against my Night gobbos, think thats the point.

He chooses his Lore at the start of the game so it doesn't matter what army you're playing, he's got the right Lore.

Stephen_Newman 02-01-12 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramoro (Post 1152556)
He chooses his Lore at the start of the game so it doesn't matter what army you're playing, he's got the right Lore.

Not really RAW (which normally play to the letter if I suspect that Teclis may be taken) states that actually the army list is drawn before a match. Teclis special rule says that he picks his lore BEFORE a match. So I refuse to set up a single guy before I know what Teclis is doing. Makes life a damn sight easier since as Skaven have decent I values (except mine for being plague based) I almost never see the lore of Shadow or Death used against me.

Styro-J 02-02-12 01:40 AM

Some special rules, magic items etc. have an effect at the
beginning of the battle, or before the game starts. When should
these effects take place? (143)
A: After both armies are deployed and any Deployment special
rules have occurred but before the roll for first turn.

as per FAQ

I don't have my army book with me, but how does that line up with Teclis? If I remember right he should be picking lores about then.

Aramoro 02-02-12 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_Newman (Post 1153050)
Not really RAW (which normally play to the letter if I suspect that Teclis may be taken) states that actually the army list is drawn before a match. Teclis special rule says that he picks his lore BEFORE a match. So I refuse to set up a single guy before I know what Teclis is doing. Makes life a damn sight easier since as Skaven have decent I values (except mine for being plague based) I almost never see the lore of Shadow or Death used against me.

As Styro said it is RAW, Telicis rules say

Quote:

Teclis is a Lvl 4 wizard and may Choose any one of the eight lores of magic or high magic before the game starts. whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells.
which works neatly into the FAQ

Quote:

Q: Some special rules, magic items etc. have an effect at the
beginning of the battle, or before the game starts. When should
these effects take place? (143)
A: After both armies are deployed and any Deployment special
rules have occurred but before the roll for first turn.
So Teclis picks his Lore after deployment, but before you decide who goes first. Trying to RAWHammer Teclis is a tough job.

neilbatte 02-02-12 05:24 PM

Probably a 1 off but I killed him with itchy nuisance/ skull wand of Kaloth combo on my lvl 4 nightgob shamen.

Vrykolas2k 02-06-12 04:01 AM

The only time I have ever beaten a Teclis list was using a unit of 20 Cold One Knights with the banner that gave them ASF and Malus Darkblade. I still lost most of the unit, but killed Teclis and his damned ASF sword-wielders (I forget what they're called).
Every other time I fight a Teclis list (granted the points are always smaller) I lose.

Tim/Steve 02-06-12 05:48 AM

If you manage to ram a half decent combat unit into Teclis and have them either with ASF or tough enough to survive the HEs attacks then bit T should be dead... but getting there with something that strong is a little taxing.

I think the best way to take him out would be to charge with flankers and then cast Birona's Timewarp on them... but that means you have to slip the 1 spell Teclis doesn't want past his magical defenses. Tricky, but would be very satisfying.

seermaster 02-14-13 09:37 PM

Could you tunnel in with skaven and the assasin guy tunnel into the unit so he can't ofencive spell you to death granted you'll have very low ws but with enough of them you can allow bigger stuff a chance to get to him


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