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-   -   Versus...Teclis (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-tactics/71472-versus-teclis.html)

Orochi 09-20-10 12:12 PM

Versus...Teclis
 
As title implies, what do you do when your High Elf opponent whips out the King of magic?

On paper, I can finally see Malekith having a use, as a Str6 hit against Teclis for every spell that is dispelled when the Target is Malekith or his unit would really hurt the little elf. Malekith generating +1 Dispel dice and having MR2 helps this alot.

Obviously, Corpse Carts with Balefire would also help considerably.

Thoughts?

Arli 09-20-10 01:06 PM

For lizards, Bane head (double wounds from single wounds to named target) plus feedback scroll=dead Teclis.

Aramoro 09-20-10 01:08 PM

If he's not hiding in a Banner of the World Dragon then strangely spells are a good turning point. Dwellers From Below will kill him on a 3+ with no save, Final Transmutions will turn him in a shiny gold Teclis on a 5+.

The other option is to go and stab him in his stupid face. He's not very strong so if you get into combat you'll have 3 guys in base to base, direct you're attacks into him, don't challenge him, just stab him.

He's a very powerful Character, no more than you would expect for his price though.

Aramoro

Putch. 09-20-10 02:35 PM

Lore of death? Fate of Bjuna, and Caress of Laniph= Lawl my 80 point empire wizard just ate your teclis.

Tim/Steve 09-20-10 03:11 PM

Spells are a pretty bad way to try to counter this old lad- if he isnt paired with banner of the world dragon its likely he'll be with caradryan and so will have MR3 (unlikely not to have any MR) so wil have a save against spells like the golden hounds. Characteristic tests or straight dead spells like swellers and final transmulation are great... but a little hard to pull off against Teclis without irrisistable force: he comes with his own scroll which is almost certain to be used if you are targeting a spell at him that can kill him in 1 go (and may well stop you using that spell again) and if not then he still has +D3 dispel dice and +5 to dispel... not easy.

If I was going to use magic then I would hope to have something like a lv4 with life, a lv2 with life and a power scroll. Lv4 bufs your army and rolls spells first (does not take dwellers), Lv2 almost has to get dwellers (certainly will if the Lv4 didnt roll it and didnt change anything to earthblood)... that lets you march the Lv2 away from all units turn 1 and then throw <6 dice at dwellers to force it through.... without a banner of teh world dragon or some serious luck Teclis would die. Its also not a bad set up against other armies... but it is broken and beardy as all hell (BoLS made a list top6 broken things in 8th- Teclis, power scroll and dwellers all made it on).

If you have any directed (sniper) shooting then Teclis is in trouble. Things like the hunter's bow, pageant of shrikes or hotchland longrifle are all pretty sweet against Teclis... but you'll often find he takes life and so that is pretty irritating too, as you mihgt put 2W on Teclis, but then by casting a few spells (and you wont stop him casting at least 2 a turn) he'll be back to full wounds... arrgghhh

The best way to kill him is always to get into combat and munch him... but you come into problems here too: the standard suicide assault squad that I would use to kill enemy wizards wouldnt work on Teclis. First he's a lord and so has 3W meaning that you need to have 3A to have a chance at him, and ~6 to make it really likely but the bigger issue is that he will normally sit in a bit unit of HE, with huge numbers of attacks, rerolls to hit and they'll go first... Dum dum derrrr.
However, on the up side you dont need all that many to survive and you can jump all over a massively expensive character. So sending a unit of 30 clanrats into a fight they cannot possibly win is fine: you might lose 15 rats and have no chance of winning, but you can kill Teclis (and mebbe a few bonus HE) and draw the enemy out of position if they pursue you while only risking a relatively cheap unit. Almost all armies have something they can try this with... about the worst example would be ogres, but even then they can use gnoblars for this purpose (if you ever manage to get them into position).

Durzod 09-20-10 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochi (Post 733822)
As title implies, what do you do when your High Elf opponent whips out the King of magic?

On paper, I can finally see Malekith having a use, as a Str6 hit against Teclis for every spell that is dispelled when the Target is Malekith or his unit would really hurt the little elf. Malekith generating +1 Dispel dice and having MR2 helps this alot.

Obviously, Corpse Carts with Balefire would also help considerably.

Thoughts?

The problem with both these options is they don't affect Teclis when he rolls doubles (irresistible).

Putch. 09-20-10 05:32 PM

I think Tim/steve has the best, most assured way to kill Teclis, snipers. Long rifles, and the like, while uncomman, will do the trick. Failing that, if you can get lots of templates, or artillery send them all at him! He will fail a Look out sir! Eventually! :D

Masked Jackal 09-20-10 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim/Steve (Post 733914)
The best way to kill him is always to get into combat and munch him... but you come into problems here too: the standard suicide assault squad that I would use to kill enemy wizards wouldnt work on Teclis. First he's a lord and so has 3W meaning that you need to have 3A to have a chance at him, and ~6 to make it really likely but the bigger issue is that he will normally sit in a bit unit of HE, with huge numbers of attacks, rerolls to hit and they'll go first... Dum dum derrrr.
However, on the up side you dont need all that many to survive and you can jump all over a massively expensive character. So sending a unit of 30 clanrats into a fight they cannot possibly win is fine: you might lose 15 rats and have no chance of winning, but you can kill Teclis (and mebbe a few bonus HE) and draw the enemy out of position if they pursue you while only risking a relatively cheap unit. Almost all armies have something they can try this with... about the worst example would be ogres, but even then they can use gnoblars for this purpose (if you ever manage to get them into position).

Supporting this, it's worth even throwing a fairly large unit into the meat-blender to kill Teclis, due to his high cost and utter lack of natural defense. Once he's gone, that's usually the enemy's magic phase gone as well, allowing you to magic the High Elves into the ground, if necessary.

The Son of Horus 09-28-10 05:25 PM

You snap his ass in a bear trap. Charge his unit. I know that sounds a bit unsophisticated, but sometimes, the simplest fix for silly things the High Elves do is to just go punch them in the face with heavy infantry or cavalry. Even though High Elves typically hit with about 75% of their attacks, the units that throw a serious volume of attacks are doing so at S3 (such as Spearmen/Seaguard.) You'll have enough guys left after taking your saves with heavy infantry or cavalry to just flat beat the unit in combat most of the time, in my experience.

Additionally, if you've got Teclis hanging out with somebody like Caradryan, they're probably in a decent unit. And that decent unit with those two in there are going to run the High Elf player around 800 points once you factor them in. That means that there probably aren't that many enemy units on the table in general, even though each enemy unit may be singularly powerful. At that point, just outmaneuver them (seriously, if you've got one and a half times as many units as they do, you can do it pretty easily.)

If you've got the means to shoot him, however, that's probably the simple fix.

the-graven 09-28-10 06:47 PM

If he got no Banner of World Dragon, power scroll Dwellers is the best thing, of Fate fo Bjuna if your vamps.

THat Banner fo World Dragon enables HE to have a Deathstar taht works, all ohter armies death stars get magiced to death.


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