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-   -   Racism: Do you experience it? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/off-topic/62726-racism-do-you-experience.html)

Shadow Hawk 05-30-10 10:50 AM

The thing is, racism does still exist, racist jokes are even making it worse.
It's ok for racism to be joked about, but not ok to have racist jokes.
There is a difference between shows being pointless and actually offending someone.

Jack Jack 05-30-10 02:00 PM

As said by, Guy Nantel : "si on s'empÍche de rire d'eux, c'est comme si on avouait qu'ils sont pas comme nous autres"

( If we stop ourselves from laughing at someone, it's like if we acknowledge that he's different, not like us. This is assuming that we enjoy lauging at ourselves, or find it otherwise acceptable ).

And a show can be offensive by being pointless. Like Varakir said : people get offended for a lot of reasons, and refraining to offend everybody is a difficult endeavour (understatement).

For exemple, (slice of life) one of my fetichism is bondage. Then I learned that one of my best friend was raped by being bound to a bed. For a time, I felt my fantasies where innapropriate (and such, porn material catering to my fantasies also were). And then, I realised this : If we were to stop having sex in all the ways that could ressemble an actual rape, we would have ceased to exist long ago for lack of children.

If we stop to film things that could shock or offend someone, we won't have enough shows to fill a single hour grid.

Black people, Italian people, Jewish people, Accused Frogs, People victim of rape, physical abuse, Poor people, rich people, famous people, homeless people, mentally challenged people, handicapped people, children, adults, eldery, monoparental women, women in general, men in general, Gay people, Emo, rockers, Gothics, Geeks, fangirls, fanboys, warhammer players. What are we going to laugh about if we stop laughing about all these people? If we stop laughing at anything one of these group could consider a personal attack? Si on s'empÍche de rire d'eux, c'est comme si on avouait qu'ils sont pas comme nous autres.

You know what game is very racist? Pool! You know what ball nobody wants to touch? that's right, the black ball. Which ball always end up knocking it down in a corner? The White. This game is racist I tell you.

As for racism, I know it exist, I find that unfortunate. Of course racism has to be illegal. But there should be no reason why editors can't publish books like Mein Kampf without the "this book is racist, racism is bad!" label. It's like thinking that people are morons.

MRINCREDIBLE 05-30-10 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviltim (Post 639631)
I think the main point about Jokes, is that alot of people do not see the difference between "A Joke that is Racist" and "A Joke about Racism"

Oh and incase you didnt know, the old "I'm not racist, my best friend is/ some of my friends are... etc, etc," is actually infact racist!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Hawk (Post 641732)
I don't like racism, whether it's funny or not. Racism is never funny. Never.

im white, but my gf is mixed race, so racism is fucking annoying. jokes that take the piss out of racists/racism are perfectly acceptable. but obviously racist jokes fuck me off. i mean, let say (and its happened once) someone who doesnt know my gf is mixed race and makes a racist jive. i'll be annoyed inside but i'll let them know and USUALLY they see why they should refrain from those comments. but, i have had my mates brother walk in to a room and make the most pointless racist jive (definatly aimed to make someone laugh) and all it did was make me fucking livid and stare his 30 yr old brother in the face and tell him my gf was mixed race. as he was a racist i expected/wanted to fight. but he just wallowed in his own shitty self, saying nothing. the majority of racists are cowards that say all this stuff, then when you confront them they drop a log in thier trousers. i agree that racists/racism should be laughed AT. but laughing at it, doesnt particularly make you racist. that majority of words that my gf and her family know about they just think are really silly remarks. just like how i percieve 'cracker' as a racist joke about me. all i'd say is 'cheers' lol. the more people see how ridiculous racists/racism are, the quicker it'll die out and we'll all laugh at the silly people who thought that if your a particular skin tone, your better/worse than someone of a different ethinicity.

MRINCREDIBLE 05-30-10 11:14 PM

also to add i think it depend on the way you use certain material. any way/form of being derogatory (spelt wrong) i.e. saying here is a black guy, he lives here. - thats just telling it like it is, but if your being derogatory i.e. adding a racist comment, or something in particular that digs at someones ethinicity i.e. adding bastard, fucking, cunt just before 'black' in that sentence would be taken offensively. obviously becuase if this black guy was a cunt theres no need to add the skin tone because cunt is a good enough descrption for a an annoying man. like what the wriathlord guy said 'he was a useless fucking cock' - no racism or derogatory words mixed with ethnic ties to form racism.

Jack Jack 05-31-10 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRINCREDIBLE (Post 643069)
im white, but my gf is mixed race, so racism is fucking annoying. jokes that take the piss out of racists/racism are perfectly acceptable. but obviously racist jokes fuck me off. i mean, let say (and its happened once) someone who doesnt know my gf is mixed race and makes a racist jive. i'll be annoyed inside but i'll let them know and USUALLY they see why they should refrain from those comments. but, i have had my mates brother walk in to a room and make the most pointless racist jive (definatly aimed to make someone laugh) and all it did was make me fucking livid and stare his 30 yr old brother in the face and tell him my gf was mixed race. as he was a racist i expected/wanted to fight. but he just wallowed in his own shitty self, saying nothing. the majority of racists are cowards that say all this stuff, then when you confront them they drop a log in thier trousers. i agree that racists/racism should be laughed AT. but laughing at it, doesnt particularly make you racist. that majority of words that my gf and her family know about they just think are really silly remarks. just like how i percieve 'cracker' as a racist joke about me. all i'd say is 'cheers' lol. the more people see how ridiculous racists/racism are, the quicker it'll die out and we'll all laugh at the silly people who thought that if your a particular skin tone, your better/worse than someone of a different ethinicity.

Maybe he did not intended to offend you and was surprised, shocked to see you react so badly. If that is the case, from his point of view, you are the guy trying to pick a fight for no appropriately explored reason.

Once I was invited to a party. We were a bunch of guys playing games in a basement with a lone girl. So, I started making misogynist/sexists comments on everything, just for the fun of it. Very funny stuff, not just the cheap easy stuff you hear most of the time. Stuff that can actually genuinely make you laugh if you have the good sense to just forget that the joke laughs at you, then you can laugh with it. It was witty, it was well-timed.

She attacked me. She litterally jumped on me and the guys had to seize her for fear that she would actually kill me. She did not had the time to touch me, and I thought she knew I knew she knew that there was just no way I was really thinking these things. Naturally, she was just pretending to attack me to mess with our heads. Thinking that she would actually be offended would have been an insult to her intelligence I thought. So I said :

- See what she does? Absolutely no control on her emotions, and bad tempered. Typically feminine.

She attacked again. This time, she hit me. This time, it actually hurt. Of course, she was still pretending I thought. She did not mean to hurt. She just figured I would be "man" enough to take it.

- Dude, your girl is hot care to lend her to me one of these nights I feel lonely? As I managed to restrain her.

She spat on my face.

- Jack, I think she's really angry, said my chum.
- Don't be silly, she's pretending to be, there's no way she'd be stupid enough to even consider that these insults were anywhere near what I truly feel about women.
- I hate you, you sexist bastard. She replied.
- Then you are an idiot. No one in this room would be offended if I called them negroes (As a matter of fact, I am white, she is, and the others were all black).

I never apologized. She still hate me. Her loss. Even today, I think that I did nothing wrong. She took my words at face value when they were never intended to be so. She's the one who misunderstood the situation. She's the one who chose to get offended when she could have chosen not to be.

From my point of view, she's the one who attacked first. From what I heard of your story, maybe from this guy's point of view, you are the one who attacked first.

As for Mr Incredible's second post, it depends if you are talking to other people or if you are insulting the person directly. When I want to hurt people's feelings, I will make a reference to whatever social group they are in, because there's a good chance they will feel the insult more.

But you see, I do not have the power to harm with words. You give me the power to harm you with my words. If you have not given me this power, there's nothing I can say that will harm you. You are responsible.

MRINCREDIBLE 05-31-10 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jack (Post 643153)
Maybe he did not intended to offend you and was surprised, shocked to see you react so badly. If that is the case, from his point of view, you are the guy trying to pick a fight for no appropriately explored reason.

Once I was invited to a party. We were a bunch of guys playing games in a basement with a lone girl. So, I started making misogynist/sexists comments on everything, just for the fun of it. Very funny stuff, not just the cheap easy stuff you hear most of the time. Stuff that can actually genuinely make you laugh if you have the good sense to just forget that the joke laughs at you, then you can laugh with it. It was witty, it was well-timed.

She attacked me. She litterally jumped on me and the guys had to seize her for fear that she would actually kill me. She did not had the time to touch me, and I thought she knew I knew she knew that there was just no way I was really thinking these things. Naturally, she was just pretending to attack me to mess with our heads. Thinking that she would actually be offended would have been an insult to her intelligence I thought. So I said :

- See what she does? Absolutely no control on her emotions, and bad tempered. Typically feminine.

She attacked again. This time, she hit me. This time, it actually hurt. Of course, she was still pretending I thought. She did not mean to hurt. She just figured I would be "man" enough to take it.

- Dude, your girl is hot care to lend her to me one of these nights I feel lonely? As I managed to restrain her.

She spat on my face.

- Jack, I think she's really angry, said my chum.
- Don't be silly, she's pretending to be, there's no way she'd be stupid enough to even consider that these insults were anywhere near what I truly feel about women.
- I hate you, you sexist bastard. She replied.
- Then you are an idiot. No one in this room would be offended if I called them negroes (As a matter of fact, I am white, she is, and the others were all black).

I never apologized. She still hate me. Her loss. Even today, I think that I did nothing wrong. She took my words at face value when they were never intended to be so. She's the one who misunderstood the situation. She's the one who chose to get offended when she could have chosen not to be.

From my point of view, she's the one who attacked first. From what I heard of your story, maybe from this guy's point of view, you are the one who attacked first.

As for Mr Incredible's second post, it depends if you are talking to other people or if you are insulting the person directly. When I want to hurt people's feelings, I will make a reference to whatever social group they are in, because there's a good chance they will feel the insult more.

But you see, I do not have the power to harm with words. You give me the power to harm you with my words. If you have not given me this power, there's nothing I can say that will harm you. You are responsible.

firstly i wasnt picking a fight, the anger i felt made me want to fight but i was merely confronting him. and i DEFINATLEY dont feel i was in the wrong to confront him.
from what i gather you are saying, your telling everyone that if you want to belittle someone, its thier fault if they get offended and react? seems strange because if i said something to offend someone and they were clearly fucked off. i'd go 'sorry' and refrain from those types of comments in the future. its not about having free speech or the people being wrongly offended its just a case of manners lol or common courtesy to just go 'nah i wont say it, becasue im just feeding the flames' i mean yeah there are some things that can be said that mean nothing but get taken wrongly like the term 'black bin bag' was taken wrongly by someone here becasue he felt its racist. but even i will say that its completly ridiculous to think a bin bags' color was given its name to pick on black people.

Jack Jack 05-31-10 03:32 PM

What is strange is to automatically assume that people are agressive.

From my own experience, people rarely want to pick a fight and there are almost always another reason when they act mean. When people actually do want to pick a fight, that is the exception.

Most of the times, a fight start because of a misunderstanding, it's very rare to meet genuine hate. I know it exist. Usually in children. Most grown adults I know live by respect and a live-and-let-live attitude (with the occasionnal not-in-my-backyard).

MRINCREDIBLE 05-31-10 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jack (Post 643526)
What is strange is to automatically assume that people are agressive.

From my own experience, people rarely want to pick a fight and there are almost always another reason when they act mean. When people actually do want to pick a fight, that is the exception.

Most of the times, a fight start because of a misunderstanding, it's very rare to meet genuine hate. I know it exist. Usually in children. Most grown adults I know live by respect and a live-and-let-live attitude (with the occasionnal not-in-my-backyard).

and your completely right, fighting is no way to settle a dispute, which is why i didnt. i must have worded it wrong but what i meant was i expected the racist guy to start the fight (usually because of what you haer racists being like. like aggressive and starting fights etc etc) as i said before theres no way someone can know that thier words would be percieved as aggresive or offensive. but when they know, and they still do it, it gets personal. maily becuase if they are aware of your ethnic background (or your gf's for that matter) but continue to take the piss, theres no valid reason why they did it. even if they accidentally said something derogatory, it still bodes the question 'why did they even say it?'

its just better to go around the subject than risk offending someone. after all, most people would rather make freinds than enemies.

also, im not having a go at you or anything. typed words can be read wrongly.

Jack Jack 05-31-10 05:30 PM

I think ethnic jokes are funny. I like Adam Sandlers' movie. You know, people getting hurt?

It's like Felix Leclerc said : Le plaisir de l'un, c'est de voir l'autre se casser le cou (Litterally : One's fun is seeing the other break his neck).

This is how I view ethnic jokes. There all about seeing imagining other people get hurt or sucking in some way. Seen that way, they're hilarious.

I feel absolutely no shame telling a racist (which is the same as ethnic) joke, even to someone of that race. On the contrary, I think not being afraid to is evidence that we consider us to be part of their group and them to be part of ours. That's why I consider that I also have the "N word priviledge".

Because Ebony and Ivory live together in perfect harmony, Side by side on my piano keyboard.

And my piano is telling jokes.

MRINCREDIBLE 05-31-10 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jack (Post 643596)
I think ethnic jokes are funny. I like Adam Sandlers' movie. You know, people getting hurt?

It's like Felix Leclerc said : Le plaisir de l'un, c'est de voir l'autre se casser le cou (Litterally : One's fun is seeing the other break his neck).

This is how I view ethnic jokes. There all about seeing imagining other people get hurt or sucking in some way. Seen that way, they're hilarious.

I feel absolutely no shame telling a racist (which is the same as ethnic) joke, even to someone of that race. On the contrary, I think not being afraid to is evidence that we consider us to be part of their group and them to be part of ours. That's why I consider that I also have the "N word priviledge".

Because around Ebony and Ivory live together in perfect harmony, Side by side on my piano keyboard.

And my piano is telling jokes.

i havent seen many of adam sandlers films. mainly becuase i dont find him funny lol.
you see ethnic jokes as other people (being the different ethnicities from yourself) as being funny because they are about these different races getting hurt or sucking on some way?? some may see that as being racist. but i dont know exactly what you mean by this to even know what you mean lol
again from what you say it seems like your giving a good reason to be 'a little bit racist' and showing that you arent afraid to tell a black guy he is black or use the 'n word' because you have more of a priviledge to over someone else?
i dont think anyone has a particular priviledge to use derogatory words to anyone else. i live in a free country where free speech is conveyed in all aspects, from inciting racial hatred to shouting out about how good terrorism is. but free speech doesnt give others the right to go overboard. i choose not to because i know its offensive and counter-productive. i think thats why free speech exists because there are those who dont really need to be restrained because the majority of the public just dont do it.

and i dont think piano keys are particularly racist lol


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